Fidelity BSR tape TD1 - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

lambretta · 17th Oct 2015, 3:10 pm

Have recently acquired this machine. Got all the mechanics working but the sound was not good. Replaced the magic eye EM84 as the old one didn't work, and also replaced the ECL86. Put the machine back together and now I have practically no volume, maybe 15%. Rather than improve the volume I have made things worse! any ideas would be gratefully received.

Alan G0JDU

Station X · 17th Oct 2015, 3:25 pm

Do you have a model number or name? TD1 is the designation of the deck.

lambretta · 17th Oct 2015, 5:37 pm

Hi Graham, its the tape deck that was used by a lot of different manufacturers during the 60s Monarch and Argyll and Fidelity. This one has Defiant written on it. There are no ID plates, or any identification anywhere on the deck or on the cabinet. It uses 5 3/4" spools. The right hand control does play, rewind and F/F, with left hand control for rec only when locked in place with right hand control in play. I will try and send a photo of it. Also can you tell me what I need to do to post directly on to the forum instead of through the private post?

Herald1360 · 17th Oct 2015, 6:53 pm

First question- did you replace the coupling capacitor to the grid of the ECL86 pentode?

Was the replacement ECL86 known good from a reputable source? They're not the most robust of valves and getting expensive.

paulsherwin · 17th Oct 2015, 8:00 pm

As Chris implies, changing the the valves wasn't the best thing to do as the originals may have been fine.

Have you tried refitting the original valves and seeing what happens? Have you changed any other components or done any other work?

This BSR deck was used in the majority of British made cheap domestic recorders of the 60s. The standard head cover has 'BSR' over a graphic, but manufacturers could have their own made with their own logos and graphics. Although basic, it is a good performer given its market segment.

lambretta · 17th Oct 2015, 10:09 pm

Hi.
When I got the machine the fast forward and rewind didn't work and on inspection both rear captive capstans were seized. The volume was not quite as loud as I remembered. Anyway fixed them and added a dab of copper grease for good measure and figured whilst about it I would change the valve [ECL86]. I was told that this was the most likely culprit and hopefully improve the audio level.

I also replaced the magic eye [EM84] as this wasn't working. The machine also has a superimpose button, light and 2 track ability. So I plugged it in, turned it on the magic eye now works and I have full F/F and rewind and play & record, but have now lost most of the audio and when I put it in record mode I can hear any input into the mike coming out of the speaker and it's not wiping off the previous recording. I refitted the original ECL86 but the problem is still there oh hum. I wonder if I should put the old EM84 back in even though it doesn't work. I have not replaced any other components! as you can see I am a nuts and bolts bloke and I struggle a bit with capacitors and resistors etc. I passed my exam 35 years ago so the memory is to say the leasT a bit vague [retired plumber]

Kind regards, Alan.

Station X · 18th Oct 2015, 10:13 am

Sounds like you may have disturbed the record/replay switch. On some Fidelity models this was operated by a long shaft extending from the actual control to a wafer switch on a Printed Circuit Board (PCB).

A guide to posting pictures in the forums can be found here:-

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=77650

lambretta · 18th Oct 2015, 12:41 pm

Oh dear I have to confess to spraying that wafer switch with a liberal dose of WD40 but I did blow off as much of the switch as I could afterwards. So is the situation retrievable or have I completely knackered it? is there something I could use to remove the WD40? Perhaps I should keep that spray can away from electronics in the future!
Alan

Station X · 18th Oct 2015, 1:21 pm

Opinions differ as to whether WD40 makes a good switch cleaner.

Personally I'd clean as much of it off as possible and apply some Servisol Contact Cleaner which is available from Maplin.

Pictures might help us to identify the model and give more definite advice as to what the low output might he down to.

paulsherwin · 18th Oct 2015, 1:36 pm

WD40 dries leaving an oil film which attracts dust, but it's not harmful in itself. Just wipe the surplus off with a rag.

It's actually quite good at cleaning contacts, but Servisol would have been a better choice. I don't know if there's any point in applying Servisol now, though it shouldn't do any harm.

Herald1360 · 18th Oct 2015, 9:31 pm

If it says Defiant on it, it's presumably a Coop own brand model. Whether it's identical to a Fidelity model would depend on whether it was badge engineered or made specially for the Coop.

A bit of poking about suggests a T12 or variant- Coop did several Defiant tape recorders in the '60s with ECC83, ECL86 EM84 lineup, data available here:

http://www.service-data.com/section.php/1777/1/t12

Welsh Anorak · 21st Oct 2015, 3:01 pm

Hi there
It is a variant on the T12 and there is a manual available 'up top' here.
Since this is a cheap machine the ECL86 performs two functions - audio output on play and bias and erase on record. You mention it's not erasing - a vital clue. Check you haven't disturbed any wiring to the ECL86 (easy to do on this machine) then as Paul suggests put the original valve back and see how you go.
Personally I dislike WD40 as it has a hapit of creeping onto anything you would rather it didn't, but I can't see it will have caused this problem.
Glyn

17th Oct 2015, 3:10 pm	#1
lambretta Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Sutton, Surrey, UK. Posts: 9	Fidelity BSR tape TD1 Have recently acquired this machine. Got all the mechanics working but the sound was not good. Replaced the magic eye EM84 as the old one didn't work, and also replaced the ECL86. Put the machine back together and now I have practically no volume, maybe 15%. Rather than improve the volume I have made things worse! any ideas would be gratefully received. Alan G0JDU

17th Oct 2015, 3:25 pm	#2
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,288	Re: Fidelity BSR tape TD1 Do you have a model number or name? TD1 is the designation of the deck. __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

17th Oct 2015, 5:37 pm	#3
lambretta Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Sutton, Surrey, UK. Posts: 9	Re: Fidelity BSR tape TD1 Hi Graham, its the tape deck that was used by a lot of different manufacturers during the 60s Monarch and Argyll and Fidelity. This one has Defiant written on it. There are no ID plates, or any identification anywhere on the deck or on the cabinet. It uses 5 3/4" spools. The right hand control does play, rewind and F/F, with left hand control for rec only when locked in place with right hand control in play. I will try and send a photo of it. Also can you tell me what I need to do to post directly on to the forum instead of through the private post?

17th Oct 2015, 6:53 pm	#4
Herald1360 Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 16,535	Re: Fidelity BSR tape TD1 First question- did you replace the coupling capacitor to the grid of the ECL86 pentode? Was the replacement ECL86 known good from a reputable source? They're not the most robust of valves and getting expensive. __________________ ....__________ ....\|____\|\|__\|__\_____ .=.\| _---\__\|__\|_---_\|. .........O..Chris....O

17th Oct 2015, 8:00 pm	#5
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,944	Re: Fidelity BSR tape TD1 As Chris implies, changing the the valves wasn't the best thing to do as the originals may have been fine. Have you tried refitting the original valves and seeing what happens? Have you changed any other components or done any other work? This BSR deck was used in the majority of British made cheap domestic recorders of the 60s. The standard head cover has 'BSR' over a graphic, but manufacturers could have their own made with their own logos and graphics. Although basic, it is a good performer given its market segment.

17th Oct 2015, 10:09 pm	#6
lambretta Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Sutton, Surrey, UK. Posts: 9	Re: Fidelity BSR tape TD1 Hi. When I got the machine the fast forward and rewind didn't work and on inspection both rear captive capstans were seized. The volume was not quite as loud as I remembered. Anyway fixed them and added a dab of copper grease for good measure and figured whilst about it I would change the valve [ECL86]. I was told that this was the most likely culprit and hopefully improve the audio level. I also replaced the magic eye [EM84] as this wasn't working. The machine also has a superimpose button, light and 2 track ability. So I plugged it in, turned it on the magic eye now works and I have full F/F and rewind and play & record, but have now lost most of the audio and when I put it in record mode I can hear any input into the mike coming out of the speaker and it's not wiping off the previous recording. I refitted the original ECL86 but the problem is still there oh hum. I wonder if I should put the old EM84 back in even though it doesn't work. I have not replaced any other components! as you can see I am a nuts and bolts bloke and I struggle a bit with capacitors and resistors etc. I passed my exam 35 years ago so the memory is to say the leasT a bit vague [retired plumber] Kind regards, Alan.

18th Oct 2015, 10:13 am	#7
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,288	Re: Fidelity BSR tape TD1 Sounds like you may have disturbed the record/replay switch. On some Fidelity models this was operated by a long shaft extending from the actual control to a wafer switch on a Printed Circuit Board (PCB). A guide to posting pictures in the forums can be found here:- https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=77650 __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

18th Oct 2015, 12:41 pm	#8
lambretta Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Sutton, Surrey, UK. Posts: 9	Re: Fidelity BSR tape TD1 Oh dear I have to confess to spraying that wafer switch with a liberal dose of WD40 but I did blow off as much of the switch as I could afterwards. So is the situation retrievable or have I completely knackered it? is there something I could use to remove the WD40? Perhaps I should keep that spray can away from electronics in the future! Alan

18th Oct 2015, 1:21 pm	#9
Station X Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK. Posts: 21,288	Re: Fidelity BSR tape TD1 Opinions differ as to whether WD40 makes a good switch cleaner. Personally I'd clean as much of it off as possible and apply some Servisol Contact Cleaner which is available from Maplin. Pictures might help us to identify the model and give more definite advice as to what the low output might he down to. __________________ Graham. Forum Moderator Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.

18th Oct 2015, 1:36 pm	#10
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,944	Re: Fidelity BSR tape TD1 WD40 dries leaving an oil film which attracts dust, but it's not harmful in itself. Just wipe the surplus off with a rag. It's actually quite good at cleaning contacts, but Servisol would have been a better choice. I don't know if there's any point in applying Servisol now, though it shouldn't do any harm.

18th Oct 2015, 9:31 pm	#11
Herald1360 Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 16,535	Re: Fidelity BSR tape TD1 If it says Defiant on it, it's presumably a Coop own brand model. Whether it's identical to a Fidelity model would depend on whether it was badge engineered or made specially for the Coop. A bit of poking about suggests a T12 or variant- Coop did several Defiant tape recorders in the '60s with ECC83, ECL86 EM84 lineup, data available here: http://www.service-data.com/section.php/1777/1/t12 __________________ ....__________ ....\|____\|\|__\|__\_____ .=.\| _---\__\|__\|_---_\|. .........O..Chris....O

21st Oct 2015, 3:01 pm	#12
Welsh Anorak Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: North Wales, UK. Posts: 6,920	Re: Fidelity BSR tape TD1 Hi there It is a variant on the T12 and there is a manual available 'up top' here. Since this is a cheap machine the ECL86 performs two functions - audio output on play and bias and erase on record. You mention it's not erasing - a vital clue. Check you haven't disturbed any wiring to the ECL86 (easy to do on this machine) then as Paul suggests put the original valve back and see how you go. Personally I dislike WD40 as it has a hapit of creeping onto anything you would rather it didn't, but I can't see it will have caused this problem. Glyn