Hopefully someone can help! Old Educational tech!

[Marcusroony]

Hi all, I thought this forum would be best to place my query. I've been tasked with potentially digitising these tapes and was wondering if anyone could help.`

I've attached an image to what looks like a 2inch (?) reel, which I dont think should be a difficult copy and a 'ackette cassette' to the right which looks a little more difficult. I have no idea what machine would even play back these packettes. I have found only one remaining example any where - which turned up in a German obsolete tech museum!

This is what turns up from google on EJ Arnold Packettes:

The Packette cassette is a British development, equipment for which is supplied by EJ Arnold son ltd of Leeds. As with the compact cassette and tapete, the packette is formed from two plastic parts. The general concept of the packette is similar to the tapete, although as it is smaller, its internally fitted system of brakes is not designed to the same standard of ruggedness and power. Triple play tape is used,giving 30 minutes per track at 1 7.8 inches per second, and the standard four track system is followed. Equipment for the tapete and packette is designed specifically for educational and instructional purposes.

If anyone can help with any of that, and/or the (presumed) 2inch reel, it would be greatly appreciated!

[jamesperrett]

That small reel is probably 3" diameter and possibly runs at 1 7/8ips or maybe 3 3/4. There were plenty of domestic machines made that could handle that tape.

I've not seen a Packette before - what width of tape does it contain? If it uses 1/4" tape then I wonder if the easiest solution might be to remove the tape from its housing and play it on a normal reel to reel?

[Marcusroony]

That would be my thought. I presume the housing was just to serve as some proprietary tech, but the tape was similar to others. I’ll maybe speak to the owners and get them to have a look

[Marcusroony]

Originally Posted by jamesperrett

That small reel is probably 3" diameter and possibly runs at 1 7/8ips or maybe 3 3/4. There were plenty of domestic machines made that could handle that tape.

I've not seen a Packette before - what width of tape does it contain? If it uses 1/4" tape then I wonder if the easiest solution might be to remove the tape from its housing and play it on a normal reel to reel?

Hi James, I’ve been dissembling and yep- it’s a 1/4” tape. I’ve found a chap who can digitise near me but he said but he will need some reels to put the tape on to. When I asked him for help in sourcing some for him he said as long as the takeup reel is bigger than the tape going on to it then it doesn't matter.

I’m lost ?. Do you know where I could source some for him?

[jamesperrett]

A quick search for "empty tape reel" brings up quite few possibilities. I'd go for one of the second-hand options. Standard suitable sizes are 5" diameter or 7" diameter.

[Marcusroony]

Cheers James. I know it sounds nuts, but do I need 1 or 2 reels for him?

[paulsherwin]

I hope your conversion guy knows what he's doing and isn't just trying to wing it. The fact that he doesn't have any spare empty reels is concerning. This job may not be straightforward for a number of reasons.

You only need a single empty reel to do the job. It functions as a takeup spool while the tape is being played. The tape can then be rewound onto the original reel. It may be better to get two though.

[knobtwiddler]

Ditto to what Paul's said. My advice would be to wait a day or two and see if resident transcription pro, Ted Kendall, sees this thread. Don't run into anything until you get advice from someone with firsthand experience.

[Marcusroony]

Thanks all. I’m just a bit out of my depth. And other than removing the tape from the ‘packette’ I’m at a bit of a loss. My man does seem to know what he’s doing, and is very close by (I’m in notts)- just seems to not have any spare reels that aren’t occupied.

[Graham G3ZVT]

Originally Posted by Marcusroony

I have no idea what machine would even play back these packettes. I have found only one remaining example any where - which turned up in a German obsolete tech museum!

Mat Taylor better known as Techmoan has a Youtube channel where he reviews obsolete tech, particularly obscure audio and video formats, revealing the contents of the media in the process.

If he hasn't reviewed an Arnold Packette, and it looks to me like he hasn't, they must be very rare items.
Even if you manage get the Packette transcribed locally, I would still encourage you to contact Mat as I'm sure he will be interested in doing a video.
I wont post his email address here, but Googling "Techmoan Contact?" brings it up.

Also, did you find this university dissertation from 1973?
https://files01.core.ac.uk/download/84287292.pdf

It references the Packette on pages 91,97 & 98 of the document,
corresponding to pages 104,110 & 111 of the PDF.

[DMcMahon]

There is a brief reference to the Packette system at the end of the attachment in this link :-

https://www.google.com/url?client=internal-element-cse&cx=00...AQ&usg=AOvVaw0ZVsdF1tv9lOc6EL-EhnWe

David

[Graham G3ZVT]

Tape Systems Ltd, of Egham, Surrey, have developed a mechanically simple yet robs
tape transport system for use with cassettes employing ; -in tape. Together these comprise the Packette System -Packette being the trade name of the new cassette.
Besides employing ½ in tape with its inherent advantage over ¼ in tape with respect to mechanical strength, recording quality, alignment with the tape heads, and ease of manufacture, the Packette is edge driven. This action is achieved by building the pinch wheel into each Packette. There are both reel -to-reel and continuous -loop types.
The tape deck has a chassis of nylon - reinforced plastic and few moving parts. It can be operated in any position and be
fitted with a variety of a.c. /d.c. motors and tape heads to meet many intrumentation and audio requirements. The same deck can be
driven at speeds down to 15 /16 i.p.s. and wow and flutter can be as low as 0.1 at 18
i.p.s. Modified Marriott heads are employed for audio use --a composite erase record /play head block has been developed
for double track use such as in language
laboratories where recordings are made on one track whilst a second track is in
playback.
The single drive motor employed runs at
constant speed in the same direction for all
operations -tape speed and direction changes are achieved by simple mechanical
modules.
Of course there is no fundamental reason why traditional tape speeds should be employed in a new system there simply has to
be correct equalization for any speed chosen.
A Packette system has been developed for use in a language laboratory, and models are available from E. J. Arnold & Sons Ltd,
Butterley Street, Leeds LS10 IAX.

I hadn't appreciated that it used half-inch tape.

[Radio Wrangler]

Edge drive means that the speed varies along the length! Oh dear!

David

[Graham G3ZVT]

Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler

Edge drive means that the speed varies along the length! Oh dear!

David

I wondered about that. "Rim drive", where the drive is applied to the take-up reel certainly has that disadvantage, but all we are told is there is a pinch-wheel inside the cassette (like an 8-track cartridge) which implies a capstan outside, if this is located on the edge (side?) of the cassette rather than the front it will make no difference, and the tape will move at a constant speed.

That's my interpretation, and am happy to be proved wrong.

[Radio Wrangler]

Hope you're right Graham! Varying speed would be a right pain for recovery of content.

Mention of a pinch wheel does make it sound like capstan drive. Maybe they meant that the capstan lies outside of the plastic case and the pinch wheel is provided inside?

I always thought the compact cassette had it the wrong way round with the rubber pinch wheel running on the oxide side of the tape. But it was only seen as a dictation machine sort of thing at first.

David

[emeritus]

The 50' spools that Standard 8mm cine film used to come back from processing, are the same size as 3" tape spools. The 50' spools for Super-8 have a larger drive hole.

I used to use empty 1/4" tape spools for my edited Standard 8mm cine films, and I have some plastic-cased 7" spools where the case incorporates slots to facilitate splicing of standard 8, super 8 and 1/4" tape. The spools came with reducing adaptors to convert the super-8 holes to the standard 8 and tape drive hole size.

[jamesperrett]

Originally Posted by Graham G3ZVT

I hadn't appreciated that it used half-inch tape.

I'm not sure that it does. While the actual width is unclear from that scan, I'm fairly sure that the text talks about the advantage over 1/8 inch tape, not 1/4 inch tape. The cassette doesn't look large enough to house 1/2" tape.

[Cobaltblue]

I agree with James its really badly printed but its clearly 1/4" I have blown it up and snipped and that's clearly not 1/2"

Cheers

Mike T

[Graham G3ZVT]

Originally Posted by Cobaltblue

I agree with James its really badly printed but its clearly 1/4" I have blown it up and snipped and that's clearly not 1/2"

Cheers

Mike T

The OCR of the PDF produced gibberish for all the vulgar fractions, unfortunately a measure of expectation bias crept in when I manually corrected them, even though the result surprised me (if that makes any sense).
My apologies!
Perhaps a mod could ammend or delete my post before Google's AI overview spits it out as difinitive!

[DMcMahon]

Even though the text in the Wireless World article is very poor for the 1/4 references and therefore very difficult to decipher, the article title text very clearly shows 1/4.

David