UHER 4200 Report Stereo - Questions and Problems

[arcticfox]

Intro

Recently bought two UHERs 4000 + 4200 from a chap in North London who assured me that I would "be fine if you're technically minded". I thought I was technically minded but I need some major advice and reassurance as opposed to the golden wave. I have left the 4000 with

I will be using this machine to make stereo recordings of acoustic performances. It is my intention to hook up a stereo mic or pair of mics through a valve pre-amp and to record directly into the machine. I wish to have one or two stereo outputs to monitor via headphones or reference monitor speakers.

Questions:

Would it be possible to use this 5 pin DIN to 4 phono cable to get audio in and out of the machine?

http://www.cabling4less.co.uk/produc..._stereo_inout/

Obviously this would make life easy as phono connections are pretty commonplace and it would easily extrapolate to audio interfaces/mixers/headphones etc.

I am quite fond of the mic inputs on the front of the machine. Would it be possible to use something like this:

http://www.ltt-versand.de/Ton/Kabel-...FWMq0wodTsYFYg

...to get a mono signal into each of the front mic ports, hence recording a stereo image?

Could I use something like this:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/maplin-2-p...wire-10m-a53nx

...wired to a female jack connection (or something similar) in order to get a headphone or speaker channel hooked up?

[SIDENOTE] This is the first time I have seen DIN and I am freaking out slightly.

Last question... I would like to get some power into the machine. Having read other threads it would seem this is possible, but I can't find an original power supply anywhere and do not wish to pay a premium for a vintage item. So, is it possible to make one of these or find something appropriate and then wire in something like this to the end of it:

http://www.rapidonline.com/lumberg-w...-mount-54-5147

Caveat:

I am very new to electronics/reel to reel tape and am trying to get this machine tip top as soon as possible to record an album with, am trying to think for myself but don't quite 'get' analogue electronics yet so any help would be appreciated.

Problems:

Most things on the machine seem fine but there is currently no playback and the belt to the counter is snapped. It would be useful to know where the counter belt attaches (as I can only see the little black plastic bit that attaches it to the counter.

The playback thing is a big issue really, but the wiring all looks nice and the machine doesn't appear to be in bad condition so I'm hoping its something simple?!

[brenellic2000]

The DIN sockets are standard European sockets and can easily be connected to phono or jack sockets - the central pin is earth/common but you'll need to find out which pins are Input and Output, left and right channel - I can't remember which off the top of my bald head. Don't get freaked out... ready made cables are readily available and save soldering ( a black art!). Use the radio in/out for input output, not the mic sockets.

Mains power units (as do operator's manuals) often appear on e-Bay, they are expensive but last well however it is crucial you have the correct transformer to deck connecting cable - these are colour coded (again, I can't remember which - but you can run off standard batteries if for short runs.

You can feed signals from different equipment into each channel - be wary of potential mains hum.

The counter O-ring is the most difficult to replace - it is fiddly but not impossible without dismantling. These are superb decks but can be a proverbial pain when the they do go wrong - some parts are still available from Germany at huge cost. No output could be dead heads or some simple electronic failure - over to the experts!

[SteveCG]

I don't know these models, however addressing the playback issue:

Have you tried playing back a (known good) recording made on a different machine?

Here I'm assuming that you've tried making a recording and heard nothing on replay, so it is essential to find out whether it the playback or the recording that is not working.

By the way, are they both stereo recorders? And in your post you do not make clear the status of the UHER 4000.

[Lucien Nunes]

A lot here to answer but let's try and sort out the connectors first...

DIN connectors are still around and used in various forms, just not for consumer equipment any more. The Uhers use both bayonet-locking and non-locking types, which will fit the locking sockets too. There are also screw-locking types. Note the differences between pin layouts (e.g. 5-pin exists in 180°, 240° and 'domino' versions). Only the phones output will use domino, most audio is on 180° with ground on pin 2, 5 pins for stereo and 3 for mono. Note pin order 1-4-2-5-3 around the connector so that numbers match in 3- and 5-pin versions.

IIRC Uher mic inputs used for mono can accept either a 3- or 5-pin 180° plug with the input on pin 3. This might suit: Locking 3-pin 180° at RS A 5-pin plug can be used for stereo.

The DIN-phono breakout lead you link is a popular and standard item, however many of them are made with low grade unscreened cable that might not be adequate for mic levels although normally works fine at line level.

The DAP product you linked is XLR, not DIN!

The Lumberg connector you linked is actually 12-pin screw-locking one but they show a pic of a 5-pin 240° item. I think the power port is actually 6-pin but the centre pin is for charging so you probably don't need it. I think the plug you want is 6-pin straight DIN at RS

[julie_m]

The "triangle" socket (6 pins) is where a PSU would be connected. Pin 3 is positive, pin 6 is negative. The machine will run from anything between 6V and 7.5V. The "official" rechargeable battery had contact studs which mate with contacts in the battery compartment. The PSU could either be fitted in place of the battery, or connected to the machine by a cable.

The later, 3-head "monitor" machines are fitted with a 6.3 stereo socket for headphones. The 2-head machines have a 5-pin "domino" DIN socket for headphones, and a DIN speaker connector. You may have to pull the "tone" knob out to cut off the speaker when using headphones.

[Welsh Anorak]

Hi
It makes quite a difference which version you have. The 2 in 4200 refers to 2-track stereo, but there was a report S, L and monitor. The last has three heads and big round meters. The previous models had amaller edge viewed intruments. The monitor versions had separate record and play amplifiers so you could monitor 'off tape' while you recorded. That was a welcome facility to check you were actually recording!
In fact the monitor versions, in my opinion, weren't as good as the earlier ones despite being mechanically similar (I have examples of both) - the rubber parts, as was typical of the period, weren't as robust.
So hopefully we can help when we know what we're dealing with. Incidentally, if it's an Ex-BBC machine the speaker was sometimes disconnected!
Glyn

[radiotechnician]

The Uher Report 4000, 4000S and 4000L, and the 4200 Stereo used three types of motor drive regulation. Your machine speed, and head condition should be determined before you make any serious recordings.

I was involved with these machine when they were current. And the motors were an ongoing concern. I have original schematic sets for these sets, with the service manuals. The Report 4200 Stereo data is an appendix to the Report 4000L manual. It used a three phase motor, but alas, a mechanical position contactor.

Thumbnail is the power supply and input data. You may not need a microphone pre amp, as Uher mikes were dynamic types connected to
an input with 100 microvolt sensitivity across 2000 ohms.

[Ted Kendall]

I'd dispute the wisdom of recording acoustic (which presumably involves guitar) performances on one of these anyway - analogue grunge is all very well, but there are limits. Whilst the Uher is stable enough not to be embarassing, I doubt whether you will get a wow- or flutter-free performance out of it.

[Welsh Anorak]

Hi
Ted has a point. The top priority was the portability of these machines - don't laugh, for the time they were. The most common use was for radio interviews. I used them for effects and non-critical wildtrack recording as well but speech was their main use. If music was involved then the Nagra came out.
If you're thinking of a studio use then I'd have a look at a Revox, perferably hi-speed. Plenty about and with an excellent transport. Also 10.5" tapes last a lot longer than the 5" ones the Uher likes!
Glyn

[arcticfox]

Just to clarify SteveCG, the mono 4000 has been looked at by a local electronic technician who has managed to get the machine running smoothly and has rebuilt some of the degraded rubber using heatshrink. He has not been able to get the machine to make arecording yet though, although it does playback well. I will be picking it up from him at the weekend.

The 4200 which I have on my dining table in bits at the moment does not playback or record but the controls and mechanisms seem to be in good working order.

Thanks for the advice on cables brenellic + Lucien, I am now confident I can at least connect the Uher to my required in/outs apropos audio signals. Volts on the other hand... Yikes! I am the kind of person who manages to arc car battery terminals by dropping a spanner. Lets get this straight, Lucien you linked me the 6 pin connector, would it be possible to connect something like this to it? http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/20w-acdc-m...r-supply-l06br

Am I right in thinking the Uhers take direct current? It looks like there's a rectifier in the schematic of the z114 power supply unit. Is it really just as simple as hooking up an AC/DC power supply with the appropriate connector?

Julie, my 4200 seems to have a shared speaker/headphone out with what looks like a two-pin DIN. Is it gonna be stereo? Would it be advisable to make something like a stereo mini jack to 2 pin DIN. I'm confused.

Welsh Anorak, I think the 4000 is an ex-bbc machine, but the speaker has been wired in. I bought it from an old Inidan gentleman who used to listen to recordings of Lata Mangeshkar on it. The 4200 says report stereo across the front, see picture. The 4200 does seem to have some push pull knobs, I think one toggles the light, but it would be good to cut the speaker for sure in the instance of making a recrding.

radiotechnician, the motors appear to be working but if they were shot would it be possible to find an equivalent substitute motor ? How would I make a good assessment of head condition? This is probably the next step in diagnosing the machine a the mo.

Hey Ted, lo-fi is fashionable in certain circles these days! The Studers and Nagras were a bit out of my budget and I'm attracted to the prospect of having something which is more of a field recorder. The music I play is influenced by the sounds of say Iron & Wine, Roy Harper and 60's folk legends. The songs I've written speak for themselves. I've tried using all manner of studio gear in the past and found that it distracts me from recording 'a performance'. I don't mind having a few dirty artefacts here and there and i would quite like the machine to have a few idiosyncrasies or foibles if you will.

[Ted Kendall]

To each his own, of course, but the wow performance of these machines depends critically on the state of the tyre on the flywheel, which hardens with age. Be aware - charming foibles are liable to get a sight less charming when they warble all over your once-in-a-lifetime take.

In that era, or shortly afterwards, the standard field machine for rock 'n' roll, and folk, come to that, was a high speed A77 - Eddy Offord, for example, recorded the organ piece on the first ELP album on one. Get lucky and you can get one cheap on certain sites, and they still sound better than they had any right to - £150-odd in the late '60s...

[julie_m]

There's something undeniably fun, though, about the humble Uher 4000 series. It's just like a proper, grown-up tape recorder; but battery powered and portable.

Understanding the machine's limitations and working within them are just part of its charm.

On the other hand, if you just want to be able to feed a signal in one end to record and then have it come out exactly the same the other end every time you play it back, get a Revox .....

[arcticfox]

Would it be OK to hook this:

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/produc...GpoaAhOs8P8HAQ

up to this:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/20w-acdc-m...r-supply-l06br

To use a PSU for the UHER 4000/4200? Without blowing it up

[Lucien Nunes]

That particular plug is a screwlocking type that might not securely fit the socket, I'd use a normal one. The PSU should be adequate, however the original one had a linear regulator and this is a switched-mode, which can generate noise and interference on audio systems. The output is also probably floating whereas IIRC the original was grounded to the supply.

I'm with Ted and Glyn on the W&F concerns though if you intend to use it for music. Analogue signal path limitations that affect the timbre of the instrument such as distortion/compression/limited frequency response, and background noise which is around us all the time, can subjectively become part of a 'sound'. I'm thinking here of 1930s film optical soundtracks, some of which are delightful despite being terribly lo-fi. But anything that affects pitch only detracts from musicality, remains annoying and could spoil the effect completely.

The capstan drive of a conventional studio tape deck is a very different animal to that of a Uher, for a reason.

[julie_m]

That is pretty much exactly how I made my own Uher power pack. But you don't want a locking DIN plug, an ordinary one will do fine.

[Welsh Anorak]

I've found that the Uher power pack was a bit under-rated, especially when starting a Monitor machine in record - you can see the light dim as it runs up to speed, so a good power supply will probably be better than the original as long as it's not going to introduce any hash.
I'd certainly prefer a bit of Uher lo-fi when compared to an auto-tuned, compressed MP3 - but that's just me.
Glyn

[arcticfox]

An update on the 4000! It has been sent back to me with smooth transport and seemingly full functionality apart from RECORDING!
The guy who worked on it said that he thought there might be a problem the tape because everything else looked OK.

I'll say what I can see: the rec light switches on when record and start are pressed simultaneously, the microphone signal is being amplified and can be heard properly through the speaker, no recording has been made however when rewound and played back. I have tried recording the signal at low and high levels but it doesn't seem to make a difference.

I'm thinking that the record head or circuit might be the culprit. Does anyone have any thoughts on this please?

[julie_m]

Does it erase the old programme from the tape? That will tell us if or not the oscillator is running.

Do you get a signal coming through the speaker with the machine in RECORD and the MONITOR switch set to "S" (Source) ? (Obviously nothing will happen on "T" if it is not recording properly .....)

[arcticfox]

It does not seem to erase the old programme from the tape with or without a mic connected.

The signal does sound in the speaker clearly when set to s, but nothing happens with T.

[radiotechnician]

When attempting to record with the microphone, do the level meters show the signal from your voice?

If not, then check to see that contacts 56, an 55 on the record/playback slide switch have closed, and there is 5.3 volts on pin on the inset showing the remote control socket.

This is the first test that must be done. If the meters work properly, the next step is to test transistor T15. I have attached the inset of the portion of the schematic.

It is more likely that this transistor has failed than the erase head is defective. From the inset, contacts a1,b1,c1 and a6,b6,c6 , on the track selector are involved with erase head track selection, as is L1.

If the bias is operating , the DC voltages on the transistor may be difficult to read with a modern DVM . It needs an oscilloscope to do properly.