Ancilliaries - Page 2 - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

jim_beacon · 4th Sep 2006, 10:41 pm

I didn't know that the retention properties of core was sometimes used for data transfer - I knew that core will retain data for a number of years, but always thought that the machine would have some other form of program load.

Jim.

Skywave · 4th Sep 2006, 10:42 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by quantum

Don't forget 8 " floppies - many people in their '20s probably won't have seen a 5.25 " floppy let alone an 8 " one!

And I, in turn, wonder how many people in their '20s have seen an original cd-rom drive? The original x1 speed: 150kb/s. (They cost a fortune!

)

Al.

G0PKH - Pete · 4th Sep 2006, 10:50 pm

The first 1xSpeed CD Rom Drive I had was a Mitsumi, it was attached to soundcard interface, and was actually top loading

.

You had to press the entire front in, then the drive would slide out, and you could open the top and load the disk, then push the whole thing back in again. No caddies in that, but then it wasn't an expensive SCSI drive.

Dave Moll · 4th Sep 2006, 10:50 pm

Thanks for reviving this thread. The previous posts pre-dated my membership of this forum, so I had not seen the thread before.

This has been a bit of a nostalgia trip for me, going back to my days of mainframe computers with EDS (Exchangable Disk Storage) packs about 18 inches across and about 8 inches high (going into a unit about the size of a washing machine). I also remember one machine (going out of service shortly after I started), whose disc platters were about three feet across - someone had the idea of screwing legs to the platter to make a coffee table.

I never really had much involvement with punched tape - we used 80-column punched cards, which had the advantage that any changes only involved repunching one card. Any amendments to a program on punched tape must have been an absolute nightmare. In my school days (late 1960s) I became quite proficient with a hand punch with which one pressed combinations of keys for the appropriate punched codes. After that, an automated punch with a QWERTY keyboard was the height of luxury - it even printed the characters along the top as well as punching the holes, making debugging much easier.

And yes, I have hundreds of floppy discs, 3", 3½", 5¼" and 8", containing formats including BBC micro, CPM and of course DOS/PC.

Dave Moll · 4th Sep 2006, 10:59 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skywave

And I, in turn, wonder how many people in their '20s have seen an original cd-rom drive? The original x1 speed: 150kb/s. (They cost a fortune!

)

Al.

I'm not sure that I've ever seen one (I'm in my fifties). I do, however, have a number of x2 drives which have the advantage of running off an XT-compatible ISA card. I therefore have an Amstrad PC1640 with CD-ROM access!

jim_beacon · 4th Sep 2006, 11:06 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by G0PKH - Pete

The first 1xSpeed CD Rom Drive I had was a Mitsumi, it was attached to soundcard interface, and was actually top loading

.

I used early CD-ROM, with sound card interface, at x1 and x2, and it was reliable, if a bit slow (but fantastic for the time).

We had a system at work (I think the drives are still about somewhere), which used "Laservision" type disks (12" CD-ROM gives a reasonable idea) for data storage (OS maps). Has anyone else seen these?

Jim.

BBCmicro · 4th Sep 2006, 11:15 pm

I wish I was around and privelidged enough to work with PDPs and the like. I would love an 8" floppy drive! I'll put it on my list, which includes an acoustic modem, teletype, IBM PC, Mark 8, PDP8, Altair 8800, Imsai, Kenbak 1, and what the heck, if I'm dreaming how about an Apple I?

Being fairly young and all and still in my teens in the land of the Pentium Four I get a great feeling resurrecting old hardware. Although due to my budget (aka allowance) I can only usually get my hands on PC Compatibles, 286s, 486s, commodores, beebs and spectrums which are nice but hardly thrillling! Most of my nostalgia revolves around BBCs, PCs running DOS only, dot matrix printers and green screen monitors dotted around my primary school, and they were out of date then!

Laservision - I'm probably mistaken but isnt that an older name of the Laserdisc media? As used in the Domesday Project

arjoll · 5th Sep 2006, 10:29 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skywave

Ah, yes - "Banda" machines. Thanks for the reminder!

But goodness me! Still in use that late?

My reference was to the early '60's!

I remember them from primary school in the 70's-80's. By the time I hit intermediate in 1982 (form 1 - year 6 I think) most stuff was photocopied, but I still remember the Gestetner being used to print Church newsletters until the mid 80's, and some of the older teachers at high school still used some of the old technology quite late.

I remember finding some kind of old thermal copier thing when we cleared out my father in law's estate in 1997; my wife can remember him copying homework etc for her, which would have been in the 80's as well.

arjoll · 5th Sep 2006, 10:34 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skywave

Very good. Who needs a network when you've got FDDs and legs?

Sneakernet; sweet

I used a lot of 720k floppies on Macs when I was an accounting trainee at Ernst & Young. Later on as a graduate CA and network admin (hence my slow slide - either up or down depending on perspective - into IT consultant).

Come to think of it I'm sure Sneakernet gave better performance than Localtalk networking over telephone cable. It wasn't exactly fast (about floppy speeds) and the 'ultra fast' 10Base-T over on the PC side of the network didn't help it seem any better

Dave Moll · 5th Sep 2006, 12:46 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim_beacon

We had a system at work (I think the drives are still about somewhere), which used "Laservision" type disks (12" CD-ROM gives a reasonable idea) for data storage (OS maps). Has anyone else seen these?

Jim.

I saw one of these demonstrated at Istel, the computer company I worked for in the 1980s.

I managed to acquire the video version of this (player and a selection of discs) at the last NVCF. At some indeterminate time in the future, I shall start a thread when I try to get this system working.

Paul_RK · 5th Sep 2006, 2:33 pm

I'm sure I have a big mains powered Gestetner duplicator somewhere in the bedroom

About 30 reams of coloured paper for it too.

Paul

jay_oldstuff · 5th Sep 2006, 3:32 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skywave

Ah, yes - "Banda" machines. Thanks for the reminder!

But goodness me! Still in use that late?

My reference was to the early '60's!

Al.

I left primary school in 1990 and ours was still in use then, ah yes the smell it was quite intoxicating if i remember corectely.

Jay

jim_beacon · 5th Sep 2006, 7:46 pm

Didn't those early machines need a special master - a waxed based paper that you wrote on with a stylus? I think my Mums old Imperial typewriter had a setting that moved the ribbon out of the way for typing the masters.

Jim.

Nickthedentist · 5th Sep 2006, 8:16 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim_beacon

I think my Mums old Imperial typewriter had a setting that moved the ribbon out of the way for typing the masters.

Yes, a 3-position lever with red, black and S (= stencil) settings

Doug_h · 5th Sep 2006, 9:43 pm

I'm not sure if you'd call this an "ancilliary" but there's one thing I recall most vividly about my first ever computer job (Computer Operator, 1965, £10-12-6d per week ..... i.e. about 2 hours at todays Nat. Min Wage) This was in the days of "clean room" environments, and to try and minimise every kind of dirt there was a sticky mat - a bit like a large doormat - inside the computer room door over which everyone had to walk. I think it was called a "tackimat" and it seemed to consist of numerous layers of glue-impregnated fabric all wrapped round a hardboard base.

Needless to say, after a few days this got absolutely revoltingly dirty, with all kinds of nameless goo stuck all over it as well as the more recognisable bits of grit, mud and general gunge. It was then the job of the most-recently joined Operator (i.e. Muggins here) to tear off the outmost layer, dispose of same, and replace the tackimat (with it's new clean sticky surface) inside the door. Then you had to go and wash your hands ... Since this was a food factory (I'd better not name it) hygiene was a priority even for the computer staff. I could hardly wait for some other poor mutt to be taken on as the next Operator !

joe · 5th Sep 2006, 11:09 pm

My first "real" job was with Strand Electric who made theatre & TV lighting controls. They had a drum memory, fortunately never used, that had a small oil tank & a pump to feed the bearings. The head gap was set to about one thou by measuring a change in air pressure while screwing the head in or out. I don't know what the capacity was, but I'm quite sure that by todays standards it was ridiculously small. It was manufactured by Sperry & took two or three guys to move it.

Joe

Zulu95 · 14th Oct 2006, 7:22 pm

"Very good. Who needs a network when you've got FDDs and legs?"

Known as "Sneaker net".

4th Sep 2006, 10:41 pm	#21
jim_beacon Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bishop's Waltham, Hants, UK. Posts: 939	Re: Ancilliaries I didn't know that the retention properties of core was sometimes used for data transfer - I knew that core will retain data for a number of years, but always thought that the machine would have some other form of program load. Jim.

4th Sep 2006, 10:50 pm	#23
G0PKH - Pete Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Stansted Essex Posts: 263	Re: Ancilliaries The first 1xSpeed CD Rom Drive I had was a Mitsumi, it was attached to soundcard interface, and was actually top loading . You had to press the entire front in, then the drive would slide out, and you could open the top and load the disk, then push the whole thing back in again. No caddies in that, but then it wasn't an expensive SCSI drive.

4th Sep 2006, 10:50 pm	#24
Dave Moll Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK Posts: 6,127	Re: Ancilliaries Thanks for reviving this thread. The previous posts pre-dated my membership of this forum, so I had not seen the thread before. This has been a bit of a nostalgia trip for me, going back to my days of mainframe computers with EDS (Exchangable Disk Storage) packs about 18 inches across and about 8 inches high (going into a unit about the size of a washing machine). I also remember one machine (going out of service shortly after I started), whose disc platters were about three feet across - someone had the idea of screwing legs to the platter to make a coffee table. I never really had much involvement with punched tape - we used 80-column punched cards, which had the advantage that any changes only involved repunching one card. Any amendments to a program on punched tape must have been an absolute nightmare. In my school days (late 1960s) I became quite proficient with a hand punch with which one pressed combinations of keys for the appropriate punched codes. After that, an automated punch with a QWERTY keyboard was the height of luxury - it even printed the characters along the top as well as punching the holes, making debugging much easier. And yes, I have hundreds of floppy discs, 3", 3½", 5¼" and 8", containing formats including BBC micro, CPM and of course DOS/PC.

4th Sep 2006, 11:15 pm	#27
BBCmicro Tetrode Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Dundee, Scotland, UK. Posts: 53	Re: Ancilliaries I wish I was around and privelidged enough to work with PDPs and the like. I would love an 8" floppy drive! I'll put it on my list, which includes an acoustic modem, teletype, IBM PC, Mark 8, PDP8, Altair 8800, Imsai, Kenbak 1, and what the heck, if I'm dreaming how about an Apple I? Being fairly young and all and still in my teens in the land of the Pentium Four I get a great feeling resurrecting old hardware. Although due to my budget (aka allowance) I can only usually get my hands on PC Compatibles, 286s, 486s, commodores, beebs and spectrums which are nice but hardly thrillling! Most of my nostalgia revolves around BBCs, PCs running DOS only, dot matrix printers and green screen monitors dotted around my primary school, and they were out of date then! Laservision - I'm probably mistaken but isnt that an older name of the Laserdisc media? As used in the Domesday Project Last edited by BBCmicro; 4th Sep 2006 at 11:20 pm.

5th Sep 2006, 2:33 pm	#31
Paul_RK Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Fakenham, Norfolk, UK. Posts: 4,256	Re: Ancilliaries I'm sure I have a big mains powered Gestetner duplicator somewhere in the bedroom About 30 reams of coloured paper for it too. Paul

5th Sep 2006, 7:46 pm	#33
jim_beacon Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bishop's Waltham, Hants, UK. Posts: 939	Re: Ancilliaries Didn't those early machines need a special master - a waxed based paper that you wrote on with a stylus? I think my Mums old Imperial typewriter had a setting that moved the ribbon out of the way for typing the masters. Jim.

5th Sep 2006, 9:43 pm	#35
Doug_h Triode Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Bristol, UK. Posts: 31	Re: Ancilliaries I'm not sure if you'd call this an "ancilliary" but there's one thing I recall most vividly about my first ever computer job (Computer Operator, 1965, £10-12-6d per week ..... i.e. about 2 hours at todays Nat. Min Wage) This was in the days of "clean room" environments, and to try and minimise every kind of dirt there was a sticky mat - a bit like a large doormat - inside the computer room door over which everyone had to walk. I think it was called a "tackimat" and it seemed to consist of numerous layers of glue-impregnated fabric all wrapped round a hardboard base. Needless to say, after a few days this got absolutely revoltingly dirty, with all kinds of nameless goo stuck all over it as well as the more recognisable bits of grit, mud and general gunge. It was then the job of the most-recently joined Operator (i.e. Muggins here) to tear off the outmost layer, dispose of same, and replace the tackimat (with it's new clean sticky surface) inside the door. Then you had to go and wash your hands ... Since this was a food factory (I'd better not name it) hygiene was a priority even for the computer staff. I could hardly wait for some other poor mutt to be taken on as the next Operator !

5th Sep 2006, 11:09 pm	#36
joe Rest in Peace Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Edgware, North London. Posts: 307	Re: Ancilliaries My first "real" job was with Strand Electric who made theatre & TV lighting controls. They had a drum memory, fortunately never used, that had a small oil tank & a pump to feed the bearings. The head gap was set to about one thou by measuring a change in air pressure while screwing the head in or out. I don't know what the capacity was, but I'm quite sure that by todays standards it was ridiculously small. It was manufactured by Sperry & took two or three guys to move it. Joe

14th Oct 2006, 7:22 pm	#37
Zulu95 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Savannah, Georgia, USA. Posts: 31	Re: Ancilliaries "Very good. Who needs a network when you've got FDDs and legs?" Known as "Sneaker net".