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Vintage Audio (record players, hi-fi etc) Amplifiers, speakers, gramophones and other audio equipment. |
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7th Jun 2018, 12:59 pm | #1 |
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RGD RP231 record player
I am restoring this record player which was given to me by a very kind chap, Steve.
I just wondered if you could confirm if the stylus fitted to the BSR X5H cartridge was the correct type. It does not seem that the stem is long enough for the flattened end to clear the yoke. I dont think I have the correct terms, but you probably know what I mean if you look at the end of the stylus. I have another X5H with a missing stylus point, which has another style of stylus all plastic.. Which if any are correct. Thanks Mike |
7th Jun 2018, 1:32 pm | #2 |
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Re: RGD RP231 record player
The stylus should be the all-plastic version. If you google "Musonic", go into "record needles" then type X5H into the search box, you will see the correct one. You can have a stylus with LP/78 tips, or two LP tips if you don't play 78s.
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7th Jun 2018, 3:26 pm | #3 |
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Re: RGD RP231 record player
OK when I get around to testing the player and the cartridge works, I will order a new stylus.
thanks One more question, on examples of the X5H cartridge seen on ebay, the stylus yoke seems half way down the ceramic element. On my 2 examples it is right at the end. should I slide it down the element. Mike Last edited by crackle; 7th Jun 2018 at 3:36 pm. |
7th Jun 2018, 5:25 pm | #4 |
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Re: RGD RP231 record player
(MODS: This replaces any previous Post from me)
Your RGD player was not originally specified to be used with a high-ouput cartridge such as your (NB: very rare and valuable) BSR X5H. The 4 transistor amplifier was designed to be used with a medium-output cartridge. If after changing the stylus (to a recommended ST8 type) and if you hear some distortion/overload, this is likely to be due to the mismatch.
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7th Jun 2018, 7:47 pm | #5 |
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Re: RGD RP231 record player
According to the service data: https://www.service-data.com/section.php/7306/1/rp231, it was originally a Garrard GC8M, but the volume control is before the amp, so although it's overkill it should be OK.
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8th Jun 2018, 6:28 am | #6 |
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Re: RGD RP231 record player
I have finished work on the amplifier and that appears to be all working as it should now.
The Motor has been tested and there are no signs of excessive heat as Steve had discovered. The problem Steve experienced was probably excessive current. The work done on the amp has obviously helped reduce the excessive current. The deck has been cleaned and re-lubricated. I have a problem with a missing record turntable spring clip. The deck is a Garrard Autoslim, the clip also locates the stacking spindle, so with out it the spindle comes away when the stack of records is removed. But apart from that it is all working fine. The next job is to tackle the case. The top and bottom covers of the case are made from what appears to be an early polypropylene, a soft smooth slightly bendy plastic. I discovered with the KB Starlight Serenade which I restored some time ago http://golbornevintageradio.co.uk/fo...d.php?tid=5928 that the plastic had deteriorated in the sunlight and was crumbling away at the surface, leaving a thin film covering loose. In the case of the KB I used thin runny superglue and rubbed that into the surface to help stabilise it. This RGD case is in much better condition but there are a few nicks in the surface which show as white against the very dark plastic. I will experiment as to how best to disguise these, if indeed I do any thing other than give it a clean and polish. Mike Last edited by crackle; 8th Jun 2018 at 6:46 am. |
8th Jun 2018, 8:42 am | #7 |
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Re: RGD RP231 record player
I have made a circlip out of a coil spring, it works for the moment, it will stop the turntable platter falling off, and it grips the stacking spindle, rather too well, as the way I made it the ends of the clip lock over each other, but it can be removed if the ends are pushed apart.
Here is a photo of some degradation of the case plastic. The first photo is as original and the second photo is after rubbing superglue into the surface and holding the pealing pieces back into place. Still a little messy but with some fine epoxy filler and a very light sand should shape up quite well. As a last resort if polishing does not work, sometimes plastics with marked and damaged surfaces can respond to a quick rub over with a solvent, it can soften the surface and blemishes can be blended in, a bit like reviving French polished surfaces, but great care is needed and first experiment on a hidden part. Mike Last edited by crackle; 8th Jun 2018 at 8:54 am. |
8th Jun 2018, 12:24 pm | #8 |
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Re: RGD RP231 record player
Well the plastic seems impervious to all the solvents I tried, Acetone, xylene, and hammerite thinners, the last one looked promising when still wet, but when it had evaporated the surface was exactly the same, except the plastic had had a thorough de-greasing.
Last resort now spray paint. Mike |
8th Jun 2018, 12:39 pm | #9 |
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Re: RGD RP231 record player
I would definately use a spray paint. Check for chemical reaction first. But do cut the plastic back with something like Cif or a car cutting compound. It will be interesting to see just how this sounds in an all plastic cabinet. You should get plenty of volume given the type of high-output cartridge you have found installed.
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8th Jun 2018, 3:04 pm | #10 |
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Re: RGD RP231 record player
You could probably fit one of the Chinese red cartridges and sell the X5H.
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8th Jun 2018, 4:50 pm | #11 |
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Re: RGD RP231 record player
I would certainly do that and agree with you, but not only that - the OP has got two BSR X5Hs!!!
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11th Jun 2018, 7:11 pm | #12 |
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Re: RGD RP231 record player
I think the X5H will be fine, final tests will show when I have the player all back together.
I bought some paint from Halfords which I thought was about the right shade, but it looked wrong when sprayed, so I removed it all with thinners. I have scanned a piece of the plastic which still has the original colour, and taken a sample of the average RGB values from the image, the result was Red 21, Green 55 Blue 81. There is a website http://www.netfront.fr/Services/rgb2pantone/ which will convert the RGB values obtained from my sample into Pantone values. It gives a range of similar colours but the thumbnail showing the colour is so small it is dificult to see it it is correct. Then using this website https://www.pantone.com/color-finder you can enter the Pantone values in the second column from the previous website to see a larger sample on screen. I have come up with the Pantone colour 7463 CP https://www.pantone.com/color-finder/7463-CP Halfords do a spray can colour mixing service which can use the Pantone value so I will give this service a try. The only problem is all their paint are gloss and I feel this record player finish needs to be silk or even matt as the surface is not exactly blemish free. Mike |
12th Jun 2018, 7:48 am | #13 |
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Re: RGD RP231 record player
I learned much from this, an interesting piece of investigation. Gloss will show every imperfection. You might do better with a satin paint finish mixed in-store that could be applied with a small roller.
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12th Jun 2018, 12:26 pm | #14 |
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Re: RGD RP231 record player
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12th Jun 2018, 3:22 pm | #15 |
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Re: RGD RP231 record player
What a load of bother I have had trying to get a paint made to my colour and with satin finish.
One company couldn't use Pantone colour numbers, another wanted RAL numbers, but could not use the 7 digit number the RGB to RAL converters came up with. Another company couldn't make it in satin finish, and another company could not post or courier aerosol cans. Halfords eventually came back to me and said they "could not find the Pantone number". Anyway here is the company I found who claimed they could do it all; http://www.colourweld.co.uk/hmg-synt...00ml-531-p.asp Their website gave a price of £12.50 including vat and delivery £4.10 including vat. After a little discussion about problems with different prices appearing on the goods in my basket, they eventually agreed to supply me at the original website price. I notice the website has now been changed. I am keeping my fingers crossed it will arrive OK and be close to the correct colour. Mike |
13th Jun 2018, 8:24 am | #16 |
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Re: RGD RP231 record player
I have reassembled the record player minus the lid and bottom plastic cover which just fits over the wooden frame and is fitted with 4 screws through the feet. It plays records fine, no noticeable distortion till right up on full volume, which is basically where it should be for a record player of this type.
There are problems playing some records, with slippage between the turntable mat and the record. The rubber mat has gone very hard and there are points where it seems raised, I dont think there is corrosion, it is just that the rubber has distorted a bit. To help counter this I placed the turntable face down on a sheet of 180 grit sandpaper on a flat surface and rubbed it around in a circular motion to level off the ridges on the mat. I also reduced the stylus weight a little to reduce drag, this seems to have helped without effecting the tone and that particular record now plays OK. I cant say I am particularly impressed with the audio quality of the player, probably about the same as one of the smaller Dansettes, it lacks bass, but then the speaker is not all that large, at about 6 x 4 inches, and the covers are not on yet. When its finished I will compare the audio to my KB Starlight Serenade. Mike |
13th Jun 2018, 8:45 am | #17 |
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Re: RGD RP231 record player
Given the cabinet design, its compact size and type of construction, together with the speaker size - it's more likely to be a 7" x 4", there will be a practical limit to the amount of Bass to be heard on this. It's inherent in its design. This might be boosted with some amplifier tweaks, but this in turn might then cause boom and resonances. If the platter mat can be lifted clear of the turntable, you could reform this after submerging it in warm, soapy water.
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13th Jun 2018, 9:33 am | #18 |
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Re: RGD RP231 record player
It helps if you remember to switch out the lamp limiter.
There is a bit more volume now, and I tried it with the player sitting in its bottom cover and with the lid on loose. This gave some improvement to the overall sound. Just checked the CRTS document for this RGD version, the speaker is claimed to be 7 x 3 5/8th inch. The new all plastic diamond 2 x LP stylus arrived so that has been fitted. I also tried the other cartridge I have and that sounded about the same. Mike |
13th Jun 2018, 10:47 pm | #19 |
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Re: RGD RP231 record player
I can confirm that the X5H uses the plastic shanked ST8-9-10 stylus. The ST10 is the one to buy if you have no 78s. See the crystal and ceramic cart data sticky I put together for more details.
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14th Jun 2018, 4:46 pm | #20 |
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Re: RGD RP231 record player
The paint arrived at lunch time, I will reserve comment till it has dried.
Mike |