UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > General Vintage Technology > Hints, Tips and Solutions (Do NOT post requests for help here)

Notices

Hints, Tips and Solutions (Do NOT post requests for help here) If you have any useful general hints and tips for vintage technology repair and restoration, please share them here. PLEASE DO NOT POST REQUESTS FOR HELP HERE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 26th Sep 2023, 7:00 pm   #141
ppalped
Pentode
 
ppalped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2023
Location: Lisbon, Portugal.
Posts: 103
Default Re: Leaking batteries. A reminder, a warning.

They (PP3s) might become hard to find, but I don't believe they will become no-avail - there will "always" be someone manufacturing them. But I must agree that PP3 will have a similar faith as PP9s - they are still obtainable, but only from a few brands. EverReady and Panasonic are the only brands that I can find for PP9s.

Alex
ppalped is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th Sep 2023, 11:20 pm   #142
The Philpott
Dekatron
 
The Philpott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Colchester, Essex, UK.
Posts: 4,107
Default Re: Leaking batteries. A reminder, a warning.

Last batch of PP3 that I bought were from espares, a month ago. Panasonic.

By and large I think that the 10 year credo with smoke alarms (those that have replaceable batteries, at least) harks back to statistics from research in the US (Minneapolis? Minnesota?) which revealed most alarms were inoperative after this period. Looking closer though, the data indicated that almost of the failures were attributable to batteries that were missing...dead...or leaking. Americium has quite a respectable half-life. Both of my ionisation detectors have got MORE sensitive with age for some reason.

Note to self- check PP3 in metal detector for condition.. This is another application that should keep PP3 widely available for a while. (a lot of older ones are still in service)

Dave
The Philpott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th Sep 2023, 4:44 pm   #143
G6Tanuki
Dekatron
 
G6Tanuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 14,001
Default Re: Leaking batteries. A reminder, a warning.

Bought a pack of AAA Panasonic EVOLTA today, still made in Belgium. These have always been reliable for me, in things like wireless PC keyboards and the outdoor sensors of wireless weather stations.
__________________
I'm the Operator of my Pocket Calculator. -Kraftwerk.
G6Tanuki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th Sep 2023, 5:58 pm   #144
The Philpott
Dekatron
 
The Philpott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Colchester, Essex, UK.
Posts: 4,107
Default Re: Leaking batteries. A reminder, a warning.

Thinking about it, our wireless microphones and decibel meter are also PP3.
One of the cheaper designs of LED clock/radio combos popular in the 'nineties (I think it was Morphy Richards or some such) applied current to its memory PP3, presumably through a design error. The dry battery didn't like this at all and leaked.

Dave
The Philpott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th Sep 2023, 2:58 pm   #145
Jez1234
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Morpeth, Northumberland, UK.
Posts: 936
Default Re: Leaking batteries. A reminder, a warning.

Well I bought a Morrisons own brand PP3 yesterday and it was £3.50! IIRC when I last bought a twin pack of alkaline PP3's from Lidl (their very good own brand ones) about 8 months ago they were £2.50 for two. I planned to get 2 -3 as spares for the various DMM's, LCR meter etc I have but not at that price. At least I have one for my main DMM (it was flashing up "Batt" when I used it continuously to monitor a voltage for a couple of hours a week or so ago but seems OK for the time being now) and when I change it I'll put the old one in my alarm clock radio. I know the thread is mainly about leaking batteries but this is a phenomena that seems largely in the past to me. I have seen a very few cases over the past ten years but only 2-3 times. I remember back in the 70's with zinc carbon batteries they were really terrible for leaking!
Jez1234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th Sep 2023, 3:21 pm   #146
DrStrangelove
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Location: Neath, Port Talbot, Wales, UK.
Posts: 286
Default Re: Leaking batteries. A reminder, a warning.

Not forgetting the curious habit some PP3 batteries have of exploding the end cap off the bottom quite vigorously.
DrStrangelove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th Sep 2023, 3:43 pm   #147
Jez1234
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Morpeth, Northumberland, UK.
Posts: 936
Default Re: Leaking batteries. A reminder, a warning.

I've never seen or heard of that before.
Jez1234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th Sep 2023, 5:19 pm   #148
G6Tanuki
Dekatron
 
G6Tanuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 14,001
Default Re: Leaking batteries. A reminder, a warning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrStrangelove View Post
Not forgetting the curious habit some PP3 batteries have of exploding the end cap off the bottom quite vigorously.
That usually happens when the battery is made out of the cylindrical AAAA cells, which vent - but the outer case of the battery is unvented so the emitted gases can't escape.

I have seen CO- and smoke-alarms where the PP3 has blown its bottom.

This usually results in the battery becoming wedged into the holder in a fashion that makes trying to extricate it rather tricky and with no guarantee that you won't in the process cause damage to the holder that makes the new battery a sloppy and unreliable fit.

In such cases a replacement smoke-alarm is the path to easy living.
__________________
I'm the Operator of my Pocket Calculator. -Kraftwerk.
G6Tanuki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th Sep 2023, 7:47 pm   #149
Maarten
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Haarlem, Netherlands
Posts: 4,200
Default Re: Leaking batteries. A reminder, a warning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G6Tanuki View Post
Smoke detectors these days seem to be 'sealed for life' and intended to last 10 years, with a Lithium battery instead of the old replaceable PP3.

I gather that the 'replace after 10 years' thing is because the amount of Americium-241 in the detectors has been reduced and so they become rather more marginal in operation if there is a few years of accumulated dust/thunder-flies and suchlike in the detection chamber.
They're usually optical. Accumulated dust is probably one of the reasons for the fixed replacement date.
Maarten is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 28th Sep 2023, 8:34 pm   #150
factory
Octode
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cheshire, UK.
Posts: 1,736
Default Re: Leaking batteries. A reminder, a warning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jez1234 View Post
Well I bought a Morrisons own brand PP3 yesterday and it was £3.50! IIRC when I last bought a twin pack of alkaline PP3's from Lidl (their very good own brand ones) about 8 months ago they were £2.50 for two. I planned to get 2 -3 as spares for the various DMM's, LCR meter etc I have but not at that price. At least I have one for my main DMM (it was flashing up "Batt" when I used it continuously to monitor a voltage for a couple of hours a week or so ago but seems OK for the time being now) and when I change it I'll put the old one in my alarm clock radio. I know the thread is mainly about leaking batteries but this is a phenomena that seems largely in the past to me. I have seen a very few cases over the past ten years but only 2-3 times. I remember back in the 70's with zinc carbon batteries they were really terrible for leaking!
I gave up buying PP3s locally some years ago, when Morrisons dumped the Panasonic range. Now get them from Granada here; https://www.granadabatteries.co.uk/b...atteries.html?

They have loads of brands including Duraleak Proleak intense, Proleak constant and 200+ bulk packs of Proleak. I bought the Panasonic Pro at £2.15 each, postage is very reasonable, wonder what part of the consumer range the Panasonic Powerline Industrial compare to?

Found this crusty GP Golden Power* AA in a Rapitest AMM my brother asked me to have a look at, it's eaten the wiring to the positive terminal.

Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC_1983a.jpg
Views:	77
Size:	84.3 KB
ID:	285724 Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC_1984a.jpg
Views:	89
Size:	112.1 KB
ID:	285725

*No relation to GP Gold Peak batteries that I know of.

David
factory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Sep 2023, 7:57 am   #151
The Philpott
Dekatron
 
The Philpott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Colchester, Essex, UK.
Posts: 4,107
Default Re: Leaking batteries. A reminder, a warning.

My last lot of (six) PP3 from SNL Dynamics (Amazon) came out at £2.50 each. I think that their vulnerability to being shorted out (thus consigning them to individual blister packs of 1 or 2) gives a general reason and/or excuse to suppliers/manufacturers to boost the price.

Dave
The Philpott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Sep 2023, 8:23 am   #152
stevehertz
Dekatron
 
stevehertz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Rugeley, Staffordshire, UK.
Posts: 8,832
Default Re: Leaking batteries. A reminder, a warning.

Surely they're more expensive because they're 9V not 1.5V and contain more cells.
__________________
A digital radio is the latest thing, but a vintage wireless is forever..
stevehertz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th Sep 2023, 3:57 pm   #153
DrStrangelove
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Location: Neath, Port Talbot, Wales, UK.
Posts: 286
Default Re: Leaking batteries. A reminder, a warning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jez1234 View Post
I've never seen or heard of that before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE1egCYjCrs
DrStrangelove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th Sep 2023, 10:22 am   #154
bigfathairyvika
Hexode
 
bigfathairyvika's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Cambridge, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Posts: 494
Default Re: Leaking batteries. A reminder, a warning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maarten View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by G6Tanuki View Post
Smoke detectors these days seem to be 'sealed for life' and intended to last 10 years, with a Lithium battery instead of the old replaceable PP3.

I gather that the 'replace after 10 years' thing is because the amount of Americium-241 in the detectors has been reduced and so they become rather more marginal in operation if there is a few years of accumulated dust/thunder-flies and suchlike in the detection chamber.
They're usually optical. Accumulated dust is probably one of the reasons for the fixed replacement date.

Actually it is the Lithium battery's expected life.
The amount of Americium would be fine for at least 100 years plus in the ionising type.
Sealing the devices is a reliability thing as having the user replace a battery is considered unreliable considering the reliance of the device to protect life.
bigfathairyvika is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th Oct 2023, 12:29 am   #155
ppalped
Pentode
 
ppalped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2023
Location: Lisbon, Portugal.
Posts: 103
Default Re: Leaking batteries. A reminder, a warning.

Just in case someone is tracking brands / shelf life data, last week I spotted in my spares bin another leaky from Golden Power, unused, that should have held its guts until 2027/07. Unsure when it was manufactured, but it could have been from 2022 (5 years shelf life? I'm not certain) as I recall that they are pretty recent in that spares bin, just don't remember exactly when I've put them there, but certainly less than a year.

It would be interesting to know in which factory these were produced, but the only reference present is "Made in China".

Alex
ppalped is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th Oct 2023, 8:01 am   #156
stevehertz
Dekatron
 
stevehertz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Rugeley, Staffordshire, UK.
Posts: 8,832
Default Re: Leaking batteries. A reminder, a warning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ppalped View Post
Just in case someone is tracking brands / shelf life data, last week I spotted in my spares bin another leaky from Golden Power, unused, that should have held its guts until 2027/07. Unsure when it was manufactured, but it could have been from 2022 (5 years shelf life? I'm not certain) as I recall that they are pretty recent in that spares bin, just don't remember exactly when I've put them there, but certainly less than a year.

It would be interesting to know in which factory these were produced, but the only reference present is "Made in China".

Alex
With respect sounds a bit of dodgy brand to me, only to be expected.
__________________
A digital radio is the latest thing, but a vintage wireless is forever..
stevehertz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th Oct 2023, 10:00 am   #157
stuarth
Heptode
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Heysham, Lancashire, UK.
Posts: 669
Default Re: Leaking batteries. A reminder, a warning.

For tracking brands, it’s the ratio of leaky cells to not leaky cells which is important.

It’s all a numbers game. Any cell could leak, so it’s very good advice to remove cells from equipment which is not in use, but that’s not always convenient, batteries in clocks, remote controls and torches, or test meters and occasionally used radios for example. For those applications, you want to avoid brands with a leakage problem.

I’ve been collecting data on significant numbers of four different brands of cells from many sources for several years now. Three brands had leaks on less than 1 to just over 2 cells per hundred. Duracell’s had 18 leaks in 110 cells. Guess which brand I no longer leave in equipment?

Anecdotally on here we get reports of leaky cells from many brands, for example, Varta have been mentioned a couple of times lately, but without knowing how many of each brand are in use, it’s hard to know if they’re a problem to be avoided.

If folk on here who get to replace significant numbers of cells of any particular brand could collect data on cell numbers, leaky and not leaky, it could help identify problem brands we should avoid, or give early warning on brand changes, for example a previously good brand could have gone bad.

Stuart
stuarth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th Oct 2023, 10:26 am   #158
Phil__G
Octode
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: North Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 1,117
Default Re: Leaking batteries. A reminder, a warning.

I've made a few 'free' PP3's from discarded vape cells, its 2S so only 8.4v fully charged but they hold this voltage well under a light load, and anyway commercial lithium PP3s like my EBLs are also 2S:
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	homebrew_pp3.jpg
Views:	74
Size:	41.9 KB
ID:	286381  
Phil__G is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15th Oct 2023, 1:57 pm   #159
ppalped
Pentode
 
ppalped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2023
Location: Lisbon, Portugal.
Posts: 103
Default Re: Leaking batteries. A reminder, a warning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehertz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ppalped View Post
Just in case someone is tracking brands / shelf life data, last week I spotted in my spares bin another leaky from Golden Power, unused, that should have held its guts until 2027/07. Unsure when it was manufactured, but it could have been from 2022 (5 years shelf life? I'm not certain) as I recall that they are pretty recent in that spares bin, just don't remember exactly when I've put them there, but certainly less than a year.

It would be interesting to know in which factory these were produced, but the only reference present is "Made in China".

Alex
With respect sounds a bit of dodgy brand to me, only to be expected.
Indeed. These are actually the ones that now seems that fail the most in the bin - last week was just another occurrence. From 2 packs of 4, 3 failed (one in one pack, two in another) just in the last year.

These are common to come along with cheap gadgets from eBay - I never use them, but I keep them in the spares bin for emergencies.

Alex
ppalped is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th Oct 2023, 2:05 pm   #160
ppalped
Pentode
 
ppalped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2023
Location: Lisbon, Portugal.
Posts: 103
Default Re: Leaking batteries. A reminder, a warning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil__G View Post
I've made a few 'free' PP3's from discarded vape cells, its 2S so only 8.4v fully charged but they hold this voltage well under a light load, and anyway commercial lithium PP3s like my EBLs are also 2S:
This is actually quite nicely done - great idea! The dimensions are identical and 8.4V is good enough for almost all use cases that depend on a 9V battery.

Alex
ppalped is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 7:01 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.