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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 7:55 am   #3421
Synchrodyne
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

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Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler View Post
As the cable probably does nothing special, I expected at least £83,980 worth of beautifully-crafted prose justifying their existence in my system.
Ah, but that beautifully crafted prose was there, but contrived with such concision that it was easily missed:

“By decreasing the impedance introduced in standard termination practices, this innovative technique allows perfect mass-matching to occur between the conductor and connector.”

What else does one need to know? Minimalism at its best. One short sentence conveys the image of a perfectly mass-matched pile of bovine 3-methylindole……



Cheers,
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 8:59 am   #3422
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Intriguing speil on their part but self denying in part of the first sentence:

"The Nordost Odin Gold Loudspeaker Cable achieves the impossible"

Bit of an oxymoron "achieves the impossible".

My understanding is that impossible is just that, unachievable.
Then again, no doubt my linguistic inner ear is just not highly tuned enough to pick out the verbal nuances of meaning here.
I'm sure the use of wood comes into it somewhere along the line, they have kept the wood grain in the same direction as electron flow.

I'll get my hat & coat now..........
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 9:38 am   #3423
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Will they issue a press release to all the hifi magazines, websites and influencers if they ever sell a set?

David
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 1:32 pm   #3424
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

I reckon the 'UFO Detector' (recent thread) has more evidence-based justification than most of the stuff in this thread
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 1:52 pm   #3425
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

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Who can ever forget A Decade of Tuning Tips, Part Two (no one has ever found Part One!). Free with Hi-Fi Answers, May 1989.

Here are some excerpts https://hifi-writer.com/wpblog/?p=132 and https://hifi-writer.com/wpblog/?p=3216

Craig
Hi-Fi Answers started the 80s as a sensible magazine which also tried to educate its readers into some of the technical aspects. By the end of the decade it had totally morphed into this rubbish, magic cables etc.

You could see the effect on the readership in the Letters page. They went from "I've bought turntable A, amplifier B and speakers C and together they emphasise the treble too much" to "I've bought turntable A, amplifier B and speakers C and together they emphasise the treble too much, am I using the right cables?"
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 2:36 pm   #3426
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

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My understanding is that impossible is just that, unachievable....
Not at all!

As my boss in my first job used to say - "Miracles are instantaneous; the impossible takes us a bit longer".
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 4:12 pm   #3427
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

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As my boss in my first job used to say - "Miracles are instantaneous; the impossible takes us a bit longer".
Likewise, when wearing my Cisco networking cape in the 90s and early-2000s I used to tell people "those who said this just can't be done are going to be really annoyed when we deliver it next week".

Someone once described me as a 'computational thaumaturge' which I thought rather nice; I almost had that put on my business-cards.
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 4:15 pm   #3428
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

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Hi-Fi Answers started the 80s as a sensible magazine which also tried to educate its readers into some of the technical aspects.
Indeed it did make interesting (essential even) reading back in the day. I'll push the dating back a good few years though, my brother and I used to read it avidly every month and since we were both at school at the time that would have been around 1974/5

How else would I have known to buy a Shure EJ75 rather than the higher compliance ED for my GL75 if it had not been for their wisdom

Steve.

PS I nearly forgot! In 1976 I built a pair of the Chris Rogers transmission line speakers that they featured. Still got 'em - they're huge! Have to say they always had a very distinctive sound which I was very fond of. I would probably like 'em just as much now if I were to connect them up. Once they are out of storage and back in the house I will...
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 9:24 pm   #3429
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

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In 1976 I built a pair of the Chris Rogers transmission line speakers that they featured. Still got 'em - they're huge! Have to say they always had a very distinctive sound which I was very fond of. I would probably like 'em just as much now if I were to connect them up. Once they are out of storage and back in the house I will...
You are likely to need to re-foam the surrounds of the Peerless K040MRF midrnge drivers. Also check the non-polarised electrolytics in the crossovers.

Quite decent speakers

David
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Old 22nd Nov 2023, 10:37 pm   #3430
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

They're KEF drivers and yes the electrolytics went over the hill sometime in the 80's. I re capped the crossover with some whopping great ex Soviet paper jobbies which were extremely cheap at the time. I see now that the very same caps fetch quite a hefty price in (ahemm...) audiophool circles

Perhaps he designed others with Peerless drivers?

I see that the design I built was originally published in the Aud 75 edition of HFA.

Steve.
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Old 23rd Nov 2023, 1:56 am   #3431
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

I've been looking on the internet, this is the article describing the speakers I made:
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...v&opi=89978449

Right. I've got that off my chest and it was a lovely little reminiscence, however, I realise that I am guilty of the very thing that I was criticising just a few posts ago... there's too much sensible stuff on this thread. We need more fact free subjective tripe on here!!!

Steve.
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Old 23rd Nov 2023, 3:54 am   #3432
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Chris Rogers' PR09TL design has B139 bass, K040MRF midrange, and a choice of tweeter. It sounds like there were two designs, relatively close in time. The Peerless midrange has a steel back-chamber integrated with it, which makes it a lot more convenient than I suspect the KEF B110 which needs its own housing fabricating as part of the cabinetry. This removes freedom to play with the midrange housing parameters but it seems that Peerless did a pretty good job.

These speakers are the antithesis of the audiophool ethos. They work well indeed but don't cost enough to impress the audiophools. They don't have the sensitivity to match up with limited power single-ended valve amplifiers. Oh and they take some work and skills on the owner's behalf in building the things. People have to get their hands dirty. If they'd been hand-carved from the solid by an old guy and his apprentice living in a cave up a montain...

David
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Old 23rd Nov 2023, 12:42 pm   #3433
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Staying with speakers, I'm wondering what sort of air head thinks that suspending their speaker cables off the floor somehow improves the sound?

Obviously something different to the physics I studied is going on otherwise you wouldn't be able to sell these for £340 a pair.

If you are interested to read about it (I'm not!) then look here

https://www.futureshop.co.uk/hifista...fxk3xFpfoyugm8


Steve.
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Old 23rd Nov 2023, 1:20 pm   #3434
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

'Cable Lifters' have been around for a couple of decades now. I think the paradox is that if you've been focused enough in your life to earn enough to pay for such guff, then you have probably compromised your learning in other areas such as fundamental principles of physics.
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Old 23rd Nov 2023, 1:37 pm   #3435
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

The fundamental principles of physics aren't of great interest to these people. The difficulty is that they are seen as 'experts' and their views guide others.

Counter argument is always that obviously if you can't hear the benefit of the cable lifters (or whatever) then either your hearing or system are just not good enough!
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Old 23rd Nov 2023, 1:57 pm   #3436
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

Cable lifters have no place in this thread as there is sound science behind them and it's all about keeping cables away from the "noise floor". Allow me to explain...

Noise is well understood in engineering terms and its behaviour is highly predictable. The term “noise floor” comes from the fact that noise is not only denser than air but it behaves like a liquid at room temperature. As a result, it sinks and collects on the floor. Consequently, putting cables on some sort of support literally raises them above the noise floor but these need to be high enough to allow for different depths of noise – this varies according to noise frequency, floor covering type (non-permeable wooden floors are a complete disaster) and time of day. A height of 4-6 inches is about right and the cable must not touch the floor or even ‘droop’ in between the cable holders, otherwise you’re effectively ‘dunking’ it randomly back into the noise.

The chief benefit of those monstrously large cables that you see in high end audio is absolutely nothing to do with chunky conductors or witchcraft dielectric but simply to do with keeping the cables rigid so that they don’t drag into the noise between supports. This has been a well-kept secret in the industry for years and I will probably become a pariah for revealing it, but frankly, it’s high time that the truth came out.

Of course, the viscosity of noise is extremely temperature dependent and its gas transition point is only slightly above normal room temperature. If your listening room gets too warm then the noise can start to lift and swirl around a bit like fog or mist. This then makes the results of the noise unpredictable and actually means that cable lifters end up raising the cables up into the noise and make things worse. In this scenario, you’re actually better off putting the cables directly onto the floor to keep them below the noise.

At the risk of causing a frenzy of excitement, I can reveal that a friend and I are currently working on the design of some active cable lifters that raise and lower the cables according to the ambient temperature, but we’re still only at initial prototype stage. The biggest issue we’re trying to solve at the moment is that the cables that power the cable lifters need their own lifters in order to also not be affected by the noise floor and so they would need to be active as well. It’s getting a bit complex, frankly.

If your listening room is on the ground floor and has solid underpinnings, then digging out channels in the floor to allow the noise to drain away below the floor is very effective, but only if the covering over the newly-created “noise sink” is noise-permeable. You also need some way of draining the noise away otherwise your noise channels will simply fill up with noise, overflow and you’re back to square one. Some sort of underground ‘noise tank’ would be ideal but, just as per a normal septic tank, it would need emptying once a year or so.

Due to the liquid behaviour mentioned above, it is also wise to keep cables away from walls as the surface tension on top of the noise results in a noise-meniscus - thus the noise floor becomes higher at the edges of a room, and around any solid objects on the floor. Again, this is an issue if your cable lifters are too low, as the build-up of noise meniscus around them will cause the noise to creep up the lifter and can still affect the cable. If you are concerned that your lifters are too short, then some circles of Fairy Liquid around each cable lifter to break up the noise meniscus are a wise move.

Other detergents may work but not all are equal – Persil, for example adds an unpleasant hardness to the midrange.
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Old 23rd Nov 2023, 2:01 pm   #3437
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

I must see if there would be a market for lighter-than-air cables [Hydrogen-filled balloons?]
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Old 23rd Nov 2023, 2:45 pm   #3438
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

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We need more fact free subjective tripe on here!!!
Well, some of the stuff the same Chris Rogers came out with in support of design decisions on his Sirac-1 valve amplifier would do nicely...
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Old 23rd Nov 2023, 5:19 pm   #3439
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

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Originally Posted by Beobloke View Post
Cable lifters have no place in this thread as there is sound science behind them and it's all about keeping cables away from the "noise floor". Allow me to explain...


DELETED FOR BREVITY

Other detergents may work but not all are equal – Persil, for example adds an unpleasant hardness to the midrange.
Thanks for the masterly explanation. I joined this forum to learn from those with greater experience, and yours above has been well worth the cost of my subscription.

S.
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Old 23rd Nov 2023, 6:07 pm   #3440
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Default Re: The Audiophoolery Thread.

I had to check it was not April 1st when I read about the noise floor and cable lifters. And temperature dependent ones etc etc,

It was an elaborate joke, yes?

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