UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > General Vintage Technology > General Vintage Technology Discussions

Notices

General Vintage Technology Discussions For general discussions about vintage radio and other vintage electronics etc.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12th May 2019, 12:48 pm   #21
WaveyDipole
Octode
 
WaveyDipole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Leicester, UK
Posts: 1,534
Default Re: The Bayonet Lightbulb

From the conversations so far, it seems that I am not the only one to have observed this then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Moll View Post
ES and SES bulbs may be widely available these days, but it still seems to be difficult to find sockets for them in the UK shops.
That seems to be strange but true. I did a quick search on B&Q and Wilco on "lamp holder" (searching on "lamp socket"/"[light]bulb socket"/"[light]bulb fitting" seems to return nothing) and found only bayonet type lamp holders. Table lamps always seem to have the small SES screw fitting so for what are the bulbs with the large SES screw fitting intended?

Similarly when I looked at the vintage style LED lamps I mentioned in m opening post, they were displayed in store with lightbulb number and matching vintage style "pigtail" (lamp holder with length of flex) number but could I find the matching vintage style "pigtail"? I didn't see them in store nor can I find them online on their website. I see only bayonet type holders, but no complete "pigtail"s. If they had been available, I am almost certain I would have purchased a pair of complete sets of bulbs and fittings.
WaveyDipole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2019, 1:35 pm   #22
WaveyDipole
Octode
 
WaveyDipole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Leicester, UK
Posts: 1,534
Default Re: The Bayonet Lightbulb

I should also add that there seems to be no shortage of SES lamp holders on eBay, which given the lack of them anywhere else, is where individuals are likely to turn to. Anyone have any experience of these? I think we all know the risks of buying stuff that is not certified to the relevant safety standards.
WaveyDipole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2019, 2:27 pm   #23
emeritus
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Brentwood, Essex, UK.
Posts: 3,105
Default Re: The Bayonet Lightbulb

My late brother-in-law lived in France, and until he died 5 years ago, our regular visits usually included a visit the local Bricomarché to get stuff for his DIY projects, as well as my own, as you could get stuff there cheaply that were hard to find here ( such as 3mm studding in metre lengths, and Acetone).

The SES base was very common in France, and pendant BC, ES and SES lampholders of good quality were readily available (by LeGrand I think). The 10mm thread was generally used, and you could get screw-in strain relief fittings, flexible joints, and swan necks. BC lamps and fittings were readily available, as well as BC-ES and ES-BC adaptors. They did ES to SES adaptors, but not BC to SES. I have never seen ES or SES lampholders on sale in the UK either.

I recently got some adaptors from CPC, inexpensive and good quality. One that I got is a BC to GU10 adaptor that allows me to use a GU10 LED lamp in a desk lamp, but they did nothing other than BC lampholders.
emeritus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2019, 2:36 pm   #24
Red to black
Octode
 
Red to black's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Sunderland, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 1,741
Default Re: The Bayonet Lightbulb

As Lucian pointed out in post #6 It is a mandatory test in the UK that where ES screw fittings are fitted that correct polarity is observed.

Edit: this is so important that it is worth repeating.
__________________
I don't suffer from Insanity. I enjoy every minute of it.
Red to black is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2019, 2:45 pm   #25
paulsherwin
Moderator
 
paulsherwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 17,955
Default Re: The Bayonet Lightbulb

It's certainly a nuisance to have two parallel standards in operation in the UK. It's not just a matter of the lamp connector, the shade ring diameter is also different.

I first encountered ES lamps in Britain about 30 years ago after buying an Anglepoise style desk lamp from Habitat. I remember feeling distinctly annoyed on finding an ES fitting as ES lamps carried a significant price premium back then.
paulsherwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2019, 2:58 pm   #26
Red to black
Octode
 
Red to black's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Sunderland, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 1,741
Default Re: The Bayonet Lightbulb

As so far as regards BC bayonet fittings are concerned, it is has been a number of years that the connections are not live until both pins are depressed by the insertion of the lamp.
So these are not the 'death traps' most people wrongfully perceive them to be, I can't recall off-hand when these were introduced, or if it ever became mandatory in the UK, but that is more to do with my lack of interest rather than anything else, just that we fitted what was available and presumably compliant with current standards of the time, I will need to look this up at some point.
Another poster up-thread also mentioned this.
__________________
I don't suffer from Insanity. I enjoy every minute of it.
Red to black is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2019, 3:32 pm   #27
Red to black
Octode
 
Red to black's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Sunderland, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 1,741
Default Re: The Bayonet Lightbulb

Another thought, even with more recent ES fittings (industrial at least) the "centre button" also needs to be depressed by the insertion of the lamp before the centre contact becomes live, still the polarity has to be mandatorily correct as per Lucians post earlier.
__________________
I don't suffer from Insanity. I enjoy every minute of it.
Red to black is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2019, 6:48 pm   #28
G6Tanuki
Dekatron
 
G6Tanuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 7,189
Default Re: The Bayonet Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red to black View Post
As so far as regards BC bayonet fittings are concerned, it is has been a number of years that the connections are not live until both pins are depressed by the insertion of the lamp.
Can you offer a UK-legislative Statutory Instrument in support of this?

I feel that the whole "safety" thing about different wiring of lampholders (whether ES/SES or bayonet) is total overkill (pun very much intended!!!).

Disagree?? So show me a single instance of a Coroner-inquest-supported UK fatality in the last-decade which would have been prevented by different-wiring-on-a-lampholder.
G6Tanuki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2019, 10:11 pm   #29
Dave Moll
Dekatron
 
Dave Moll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK
Posts: 4,074
Default Re: The Bayonet Lightbulb

I certainly find adaptors easier to find than (batten-type) lamp holders.
__________________
Mending is better than Ending (cf Brave New World by Aldous Huxley)
Dave Moll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2019, 10:35 pm   #30
emeritus
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Brentwood, Essex, UK.
Posts: 3,105
Default Re: The Bayonet Lightbulb

Before getting some in France, my ES lampholders were chance finds: some brass batten holders in the clearance box of an electrical shop in central London in the 1980's, and an unswitched brass holder with 10mm thread from a government surplus shop in the East End in the 1960's, the latter used in a homemade capacitor discharge flashgun for a quantity of PF60 flashbulbs I had been given. Never seen any on sale in the UK since.

ES lampholders were used in photographic floodlights and spares must have been available at one time. I was given several in the 1980's, but got rid of them a few years ago and didn't think to salvage the lampholders first.

Last edited by emeritus; 12th May 2019 at 10:44 pm.
emeritus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2019, 10:40 pm   #31
Red to black
Octode
 
Red to black's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Sunderland, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 1,741
Default Re: The Bayonet Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by G6Tanuki View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red to black View Post
As so far as regards BC bayonet fittings are concerned, it is has been a number of years that the connections are not live until both pins are depressed by the insertion of the lamp.
Can you offer a UK-legislative Statutory Instrument in support of this?

I feel that the whole "safety" thing about different wiring of lampholders (whether ES/SES or bayonet) is total overkill (pun very much intended!!!).

Disagree?? So show me a single instance of a Coroner-inquest-supported UK fatality in the last-decade which would have been prevented by different-wiring-on-a-lampholder.
I cannot, as I said lack of interest precludes this we were too busy installing stuff without looking up statutory docs, no time you see, we just fitted what was either specced or available at the time, but at the same time we did notice that almost all, if not actually all, had this safety feature as obviously we were testing our work too.
I bought a set of Kewtech "light mates" (google it ) to help with testing
Ps. if you read my earlier post on this in its entirety rather than the snippet quoted ,I said as much in that post
edit 2:
Nevertheless , as Lucian posted back in post #6 it is mandatory to make sure that the live is in the centre of ES fittings, it is included in BS7671 as well, although BS7671 isn't a mandatory document in and of itself it is used as the benchmark to various other statutory docs.
__________________
I don't suffer from Insanity. I enjoy every minute of it.

Last edited by Red to black; 12th May 2019 at 11:04 pm. Reason: addition
Red to black is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2019, 10:41 pm   #32
AC/HL
Moderator
 
AC/HL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 7,205
Default Re: The Bayonet Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveyDipole View Post
Are bayonet caps on lightbulbs on the way out?
Probably, here, but were they common outside the Empire/Commonwealth?
It's a global world now, multinational manufacturers and markets rule the roost. We can only guard our own homes against the lowest common denominator fittings as best we can, by being vigilant and paying what it takes to guarantee our own safety.
__________________
Bill, BVWS member
AC/HL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th May 2019, 10:56 pm   #33
emeritus
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Brentwood, Essex, UK.
Posts: 3,105
Default Re: The Bayonet Lightbulb

I think France is the only place in mainland Europe where the BC base is used (in addition to ES and SES). I believe this is because France is the only mainland European county where Swan was able to successfully establish electricity undertakings. Elsewhere, Edison prevailed, and while a number of different bases were used in Europe (in Germany in particular) before 1914, the ES base eventually became standard. Swan and Edison only collaborated in the UK: elsewhere they were fierce rivals.

Last edited by emeritus; 12th May 2019 at 11:02 pm.
emeritus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2019, 1:15 am   #34
arjoll
Nonode
 
arjoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Invercargill, New Zealand
Posts: 2,434
Default Re: The Bayonet Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry_VK5TM View Post
Same thing appears to be happening DownUnder. Looking through the the supermarkets globe shelves, most now seem to be ES rather than Bayonet.
It seems to be about 50/50 here, across the Tasman.
arjoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2019, 8:30 am   #35
peter_scott
Octode
 
peter_scott's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Edinburgh, UK.
Posts: 1,989
Default Re: The Bayonet Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by G6Tanuki View Post
So show me a single instance of a Coroner-inquest-supported UK fatality in the last-decade which would have been prevented by different-wiring-on-a-lampholder.
There are probably very few fatalities from sticking your fingers up a live bulb socket simply because the most likely path to neutral or earth is via the adjacent connector.

Peter
peter_scott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2019, 9:29 am   #36
cheerfulcharlie
Heptode
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Birmingham, West Midlands, UK.
Posts: 516
Default Re: The Bayonet Lightbulb

To aid our 'conversion' it seems that every piece of clip art in the media in the past 20 years or so for using in a item about a bulb, has a picture of an ES bulb.
cheerfulcharlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2019, 5:54 pm   #37
dsergeant
Heptode
 
dsergeant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Bracknell, Berkshire,UK.
Posts: 887
Default Re: The Bayonet Lightbulb

Plenty of B27 led and halogens in Tesco this morning. I don't think there is any shortage yet.
dsergeant is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13th May 2019, 11:10 pm   #38
rambo1152
Octode
 
rambo1152's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Manchester, UK.
Posts: 1,231
Default Re: The Bayonet Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerfulcharlie View Post
To aid our 'conversion' it seems that every piece of clip art in the media in the past 20 years or so for using in a item about a bulb, has a picture of an ES bulb.
The forum's example could be considered an indeterminate type
__________________
--
Graham.
G3ZVT
rambo1152 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th May 2019, 8:03 am   #39
Dave Moll
Dekatron
 
Dave Moll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK
Posts: 4,074
Default Re: The Bayonet Lightbulb

It looks fairly "screwy" to me!
__________________
Mending is better than Ending (cf Brave New World by Aldous Huxley)
Dave Moll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th May 2019, 8:45 am   #40
Heatercathodeshort
Dekatron
 
Heatercathodeshort's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Warnham, West Sussex. 10 miles south of DORKING.
Posts: 6,635
Default Re: The Bayonet Lightbulb

I have learned [from a very reliable source] that due to the World situation, all BC, SBC, ES and SES lamps are set to be withdrawn from service on the
1-4-2020 to be replaced by the MES lampholder with what is unkindly described as a 'Fat Boy' mains adaptor seen in these pre press photographs. [copyright reserved]

It's safe and good for the environment. [Well hopefully..] John.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	L1 (2).jpg
Views:	126
Size:	38.4 KB
ID:	183069   Click image for larger version

Name:	L1 (1).jpg
Views:	110
Size:	24.1 KB
ID:	183070  
Heatercathodeshort is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 7:01 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2019, Paul Stenning.