UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Test Gear and Workshop Equipment

Notices

Vintage Test Gear and Workshop Equipment For discussions about vintage test gear and workshop equipment such as coil winders.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 15th May 2008, 6:01 pm   #1
PhaseLockLoop
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Coventry, West Midlands, UK.
Posts: 18
Default Old pocket watch meter

I found this image of an old pocket watch meter
dunno if anyone knows what it is ?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	meter.jpg
Views:	368
Size:	19.8 KB
ID:	17168  
PhaseLockLoop is offline  
Old 15th May 2008, 7:29 pm   #2
Skywave
Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chard, South Somerset, UK.
Posts: 7,457
Arrow Re: Old Meter

I believe that that pocket-watch meter dates from approx. the 1930's. I own one very similar made by Pifco. It was intended for use with battery-powered TRF-type radios. The two scales on yours are for measuring HT and LT. My Pifco has two 'legs' - one for HT and one for LT, a top-of-case socket for measuring resistance and two screw terminals opposite the 'legs' for measuring current - with suitable scales for each and provision for an internal battery.

The Pifco ones are fairly common - and do not seem to be regarded as 'valuable Vintage' as far as selling them on the Internet and elsewhere is concerned. I haven't seen one like yours before.

Al / Skywave.
Skywave is offline  
Old 15th May 2008, 7:34 pm   #3
igranic
Rest in Peace
 
igranic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Bedfordshire, UK.
Posts: 395
Default Re: Old Meter

These were used by radio dealers to test customers HT and LT radio batteries in the 20s/30s/40s. They were also sold to customers to allow them to test their own batteries.

In my youth I lived in a very rural area where the outlying farms and cottages, having no mains electricity, relied on batteries to power their valve radios (transistors radios were not then available). The local garage recharged the LT accumulators for a small fee, as well as selling the bulky replacement HT batteries. I earned pocket money collecting and delivering these using my bicycle.
igranic is offline  
Old 15th May 2008, 8:08 pm   #4
Ed_Dinning
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, Tyne & Wear, UK.
Posts: 8,172
Default Re: Old Meter

Hi PLL, there were many meters like that produced in the 20's and 30's, and has been said, they were used for battery checking.
They were not very high impedance and tended to show a reduced voltage due to the load, hence selling more batteries!

I have a collection of about 15 different types, including the Pifco ones. They are usually cheap to buy and mostly work.
I'm still looking for a Onemeter fo the collection.

Ed
Ed_Dinning is offline  
Old 18th May 2008, 11:26 pm   #5
Billy T
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 631
Question Re: Old Meter

I have a single-probe version for 0-6 volts but it appears to be unbranded, apart from a symbol below the scale consisting of a capital N inside a oval, with a down-arrow head on the left vertical and an up-arrow head on the right.

Does anybody know what brand this might signify?

The meter works, and is surprisingly accurate, but is pretty much unusable because the movement is undamped and oscillates wildly once set in motion and takes a long time to settle down.

Internal resistance is 40 ohms, but shorting input to output doesn't damp it at all either, which seems a bit strange, so I suspect a mechanical defect of some sort. The pointer has a slight rearwards bend that suggests a significant reverse-overload at some time, probably HT.

Any ideas on brand or problem please?

Cheers

Billy
Billy T is offline  
Old 18th May 2008, 11:47 pm   #6
Skywave
Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chard, South Somerset, UK.
Posts: 7,457
Arrow Re: Old Meter

Hi Billy -

Quote: . . . "but is pretty much unusable because the movement is undamped and oscillates wildly once set in motion and takes a long time to settle down.
Internal resistance is 40 ohms . . ."

Remarkable as it may seem, I have a vague recollection that that is how it's meant to perform & be

Al / Skywave.
Skywave is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2008, 12:58 pm   #7
Billy T
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 631
Default Re: Old Meter

Just picked up a nice "COLUMBIA" P-W meter made (or branded) by National Carbon Company Inc, Cleveland Ohio as a part of a job-lot of four meters. It does up to 11V (not much good for a 12 volt battery) and current to 35A. The movement wasn't working but a touch of realignment, cleaning and lubrication restored it to working order.

Inside it turned out to be a very interesting moving armature type with just 10 or so heavy turns for current wound over the top of a fine wire bobbin for volts.

It's a funny old world, I've been in the industry for over 40 years and never knew these things existed until recently, but now I have two!

Cheers

Billy
Billy T is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2008, 6:04 pm   #8
Phil G4SPZ
Dekatron
 
Phil G4SPZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bewdley, Worcestershire, UK.
Posts: 4,736
Default Re: Old Meter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy T View Post
...Just picked up a nice "COLUMBIA" P-W meter made (or branded) by National Carbon Company Inc, Cleveland Ohio... it does up to 11V (not much good for a 12 volt battery) and current to 35A... inside it turned out to be a very interesting moving armature type with just 10 or so heavy turns for current wound over the top of a fine wire bobbin for volts...
Don't forget that in the early days of automobiles, the typical battery was only 6 volts. Perhaps your meter was designed for automotive use, rather than radio, as it has a heavy current range but no HT battery range... the movement sounds very interesting, though. Can you post a picture of it, please?
__________________
Phil

Optimist [n]: One who is not in possession of the full facts
Phil G4SPZ is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2008, 1:25 am   #9
Billy T
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 631
Default Re: Old Meter

Quote:
Originally Posted by G4SPZ View Post
Don't forget that in the early days of automobiles, the typical battery was only 6 volts. Perhaps your meter was designed for automotive use, rather than radio, as it has a heavy current range but no HT battery range... the movement sounds very interesting, though. Can you post a picture of it, please?
OK, I'll post internal & external photos later, but the form-factor doesn't seem suitable for automotive use in any way, other than perhaps to check the drain of a car radio. The max voltage reading indicates that it might be designed for 6 volt vehicle use, but then I would expect a top range of say 7.5 volts max for an overcharged and floating battery or maybe a battery on charge. It is a bit of an enigma really.

Maybe Google will be my friend, yet again.

Edit: Found this on the web: Unlike previous wet cells, Gassner's dry cell was more solid, did not require maintenance, did not spill and could be used in any orientation. It provided a potential of 1.5 volts. The first mass-produced model was the Columbia dry cell, first marketed by the National Carbon Company in 1896.

This links National Carbon, who later became Eveready (I think) with the name "Columbia" so this may be an older meter than I thought, bearing in mind that the movement is not moving coil. It may have been used for monitoring the voltage and current drain from series/parallel cell networks used for other than radio or automotive purposes.

Another edit: I just spotted that it has Pat. Aug 9, 1910 on the dial, so it was designed for uses existing at that time. It is definitely older than I thought!!

Billy

Last edited by Billy T; 17th Jun 2008 at 1:52 am.
Billy T is offline  
Old 17th Jun 2008, 7:48 am   #10
Mike Phelan
Dekatron
 
Mike Phelan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Near Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK
Posts: 4,609
Default Re: Old Meter

At that time, cars did not have batteries at all, so that discounts that one!
__________________
Mike.
Mike Phelan is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2008, 7:07 am   #11
Billy T
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 631
Default Re: Old Meter

OK.

Here are some images of the little beast.

I think that radio applications are unlikely as well, so perhaps bio-medical experimentation?

I have an intriguing book here entitled "Notes on Galvanism and Faradism" by E.M. Magill and published by H. K. Lewis & Co, London in 1916. This contains a wide range of terrifying electrical experiments doctors could carry out on unsuspecting patients, but all meters are moving coil and no battery brand names are mentioned.

Incidentally, most of these practices seem directed at women, for ailments such as "nervous dyspepsia" and "hysteria".

Cheers

Billy
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Meter-1a.jpg
Views:	204
Size:	116.5 KB
ID:	17962   Click image for larger version

Name:	Meter-2a.jpg
Views:	177
Size:	110.4 KB
ID:	17963  

Last edited by Billy T; 18th Jun 2008 at 7:25 am.
Billy T is offline  
Old 22nd May 2019, 3:30 pm   #12
Julesomega
Nonode
 
Julesomega's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Stockport, Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 2,085
Default Re: Old pocket watch meter

I just came across one of these pocket watch meters in a drawer, it's a Duco with just the one voltage range 6V, and a short wire lead coiled around the meter movement and with a short stubby 'probe' in a minimalist insulator. The back is released by a press on the 'winder'.

One for your collection, Ed?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Duco front.JPG
Views:	124
Size:	82.3 KB
ID:	183634   Click image for larger version

Name:	Duco rear.JPG
Views:	95
Size:	71.4 KB
ID:	183635  
__________________
- Julian

It's good here
Julesomega is offline  
Old 22nd May 2019, 6:56 pm   #13
The Philpott
Dekatron
 
The Philpott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Colchester, Essex, UK.
Posts: 4,081
Default Re: Old pocket watch meter

Julian's looks like it's a moving iron meter, hence the non-linear scale. Hopefully quite robust.
The Philpott is offline  
Old 22nd May 2019, 8:02 pm   #14
AC/HL
Dekatron
 
AC/HL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 9,637
Default Re: Old pocket watch meter

They were mostly moving iron, 200 ohms/volt or thereabouts, hence the undamped motion. The one in post 1 looks linear though.
AC/HL is offline  
Old 22nd May 2019, 8:40 pm   #15
sortedradio
Heptode
 
sortedradio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 653
Default Re: Old pocket watch meter

I also have a couple which I am sure will have been used for wireless batteries looking at the scales.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF5902.jpg
Views:	99
Size:	48.0 KB
ID:	183657   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF5905.jpg
Views:	102
Size:	47.7 KB
ID:	183658  
__________________
Martin
BVWS member
GQRP Club
sortedradio is offline  
Old 22nd May 2019, 8:50 pm   #16
HamishBoxer
Dekatron
 
HamishBoxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: W.Butterwick, near Doncaster UK.
Posts: 8,923
Default Re: Old pocket watch meter

I would love the Pifco one in the square Red case,I do have a pocket watch version.
__________________
G8JET BVWS Archivist and Member V.M.A.R.S
HamishBoxer is offline  
Old 22nd May 2019, 11:12 pm   #17
Julesomega
Nonode
 
Julesomega's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Stockport, Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 2,085
Default Re: Old pocket watch meter

@Martin - how do you change range on that one with the 10 and 120V ranges, seeing as it has only one trailing wire and one foot/probe?
__________________
- Julian

It's good here
Julesomega is offline  
Old 23rd May 2019, 8:48 am   #18
Silicon
Nonode
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Coulsdon, London, UK.
Posts: 2,152
Default Re: Old pocket watch meter

Door bells and servant bell boards (annunciators) were in use in 1910.

These probable used Leclanche, NiFe or lead acid batteries.
Silicon is offline  
Old 23rd May 2019, 8:56 am   #19
sortedradio
Heptode
 
sortedradio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 653
Default Re: Old pocket watch meter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julesomega View Post
@Martin - how do you change range on that one with the 10 and 120V ranges, seeing as it has only one trailing wire and one foot/probe?
It has a two core lead from the top of the meter, one for each range. The foot is negative btw.
__________________
Martin
BVWS member
GQRP Club
sortedradio is offline  
Old 23rd May 2019, 10:34 am   #20
Herald1360
Dekatron
 
Herald1360's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK.
Posts: 16,527
Default Re: Old pocket watch meter

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhaseLockLoop View Post
I found this image of an old pocket watch meter
dunno if anyone knows what it is ?
"A" and "B" suggest a possible American connection, A for filament supply, B for HT.
__________________
....__________
....|____||__|__\_____
.=.| _---\__|__|_---_|.
.........O..Chris....O
Herald1360 is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 2:28 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.