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Old 13th Sep 2008, 11:14 pm   #41
Brian R Pateman
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Default Re: Pioneer PL-12D turntable maintenance

Kerembasaran,

You need to have a couple of posts approved before you are able to send PMs. Sometimes the forum software takes a little while to catch up with this.

You now have two approved posts and the PM system should work for you.

Regards,
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Old 19th Nov 2008, 12:08 am   #42
vintage566
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Default Re: Pioneer PL-12D turntable maintenance

Very interesting posts here!

I am looking for a little help... Firstly, I have a PL-12D, purchased new sometime in the early 1970's. I have been very happy with it but it was not used for about 20 years until recently... and I have been doing a little maintenance. Firstly the drivebelt had disintegrated - I found that a good replacement can be purchased from Maplin - they have them in various sizes. Next lubrication - I am happy with the motor lubrication as light machine oil (sewing machine oil) seems ideal.

But I am less happy about the centre shaft as it is still generating some noise after using light oil. When it was new I noticed a white-ish compound on the base of the centre shaft (visible when lifting it slightly). I believe this may have been some sort of grease, perhaps silicon grease? Does anyone know?

I believe this is important as I don't think light oil is good for the centre shaft bearing and may be the cause of the noise. I think it needs a heavier lubricant - a grease of some sort because of the vertical and lateral stresses and also to have a dampening effect.
Any advice would be great!

A little more history... Sometime in the late 70's I replaced the shell with an SME type and fitted a Stanton 681EEE pickup cartridge. Also I removed the lateral balance weight (and arm) because received wisdom (at the time) was that it was redundant and it was best not to have to much mass hanging off the pickup arm. Not sure how true this is, but certainly the performance has been great.

As an aside, I do have the original operating manual which I would be very happy to scan and PDF and put on my website for download - if anyone is still interested.

Many thanks!
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Old 19th Nov 2008, 9:12 am   #43
Mike Phelan
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Default Re: Pioneer PL-12D turntable maintenance

I'm not familiar with the construction of this deck, but the lubricant on the turntable used depends on the bearing construction.

Silicon(e) grease (if the usual sort) is not really intended as a lubricant, rather for waterproofing, insulation or heatsinking.

Most turntables use a sintered phosphor bronze bush, which is porous and needs soaking in thin, warm oil overnight. If there is grease on it, it needs a thorough wash with a solvent like IPA.

Ball races require thin grease - the sort you get from a motor factor.

The only white grease I know of is heatsink compound or high-temperature brake grease.
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Old 19th Nov 2008, 11:20 am   #44
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Default Re: Pioneer PL-12D turntable maintenance

Hello again,

I have checked the PL-12D owners manual regarding the lubrication of this deck.

The first pic below shows the lubrication points, one for the motor and the second at the base of the centre shaft.

"Lubricate the specified spots at least every two months if your turntable is used for home entertainment and two to three in a month if used more frequently. Apply one or two drops to the base of the center shaft".

Howard
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Last edited by Mike Phelan; 19th Nov 2008 at 5:45 pm. Reason: Reference to 'ball bearing' removed as requested by Howard
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Old 19th Nov 2008, 9:42 pm   #45
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Default Re: Pioneer PL-12D turntable maintenance

Mike,

Many thanks. In the meantime I did a bit more research and came across the following:
http://www.dedicatedaudio.com/inc/sdetail/7597

Notice it describes it as 'white' bearing lubricant. I assume it is PTFE based grease. I am pretty sure this is the same as used on the PL-12D centre shaft as I distinctly remember seeing a white compound at the base of the centre shaft during the first few years. Of course it gradually disolves after repeated treatments with ordinary light oil. I have ordered some of the VPI grease to try out - it's available in the UK from eBay and other places.

Howard, thanks very much for your help also. It's OK about the places to oil as I have the original operating manual. The only issue is over the type of oil for the centre shaft. I'm sure it's OK to apply one or two drops of light oil for a period, but mine has reached the stage where it needs cleaning out and re-packing with the original grease, whatever that is. As mentioned above I am pretty sure it's the PTFE grease as sold by VPI.

The next step is to remove the centre shaft, clean it out and inspect what sort of bearing is in there. If it all looks OK I'll apply the VPI grease and report back in due course with results, hopefully with some improvement. The noise from the centre shaft is not great but definitely audible using high quality amp and speakers.

Thanks, Philip
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Old 19th Nov 2008, 10:38 pm   #46
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Default Re: Pioneer PL-12D turntable maintenance

Hello Philip,

A pic of the PL12D shaft and bearing below. I would take it apart, clean it up and lubricate it with oil first before spending money on grease. Other sources of mechanical noise could be the motor cos the rubber mountings have hardened, or due to the transit screws still being clamped down or maybe it's acoustic feedback caused by the deck being too close to the loudspeakers and not sitting on a solid enough surface.

Howard
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Old 17th Dec 2008, 12:17 am   #47
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Default Re: Pioneer PL-12D turntable maintenance

Howard,

Many thanks indeed for your help and sorry for the late follow up. In the meantime I dismantled the centre shaft and bearing, cleaned and re-greased it. I am now very pleased with the results, however this was my second attempt. My first attempt failed owing to the wrong type of grease being used - more on this later. In due course I will post a report on what I did and the other enhancements I made to the turntable including photos and a recording of silent grooves so the result can be heard.

One thing I will say in the meantime: Oil is not the right long-term lubricant for the centre shaft and bearing. It must be a grease with sufficient viscosity to have 'packing' property - as originally used - the remnants of which can be seen upon dismantling the centre shaft (I will explain what I ultimately used as a replacement - it was a mixture of two lubricants). Oil, as recommended in the instruction manual, is intended only as a top-up for the first few years - something that can be done by the average 'joe public' with insufficient knowledge or skill to dismantle the centre shaft and re-lubricate it properly. I'm sure oil is OK as a top-up for the first few years if used very sparingly, but after more than three decades the centre shaft of my turntable needed properly cleaning and re-greasing, and I suspect this will be the case with many other PL-12D's out there.

With thanks
Philip
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Old 23rd Jan 2009, 3:51 pm   #48
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Default Re: Pioneer PL-12D turntable maintenance

I've just purchased a PL-12 myself, and have done a few little modifications to it including cleaning and re-oiling the centre shaft (After doing this, it has been completely silent and doesn't show any signs of friction). I don't think spending money on any grease is necessary, but then again I'm not too bothered if I ever need to take it out and do those repairs in the future.

I'd like to take out the motor to give it a good clean, and replace the rubber mountings as the rubber has pretty much perished. Hopefully this shall cut out some of the mechanical noise, if not it will just be interesting to have a look inside.

Howard, I'd very much like a copy of the service manual, and I shall send you a PM as soon as that facility is available to me (This should be my second post).
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Old 31st Jan 2009, 6:37 am   #49
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Default Re: Pioneer PL-12D turntable maintenance

Howard, I would also like a copy of the service manual but the option to send you a PM does not appear to be available to me.

Phillip, I would very much like to hear more about dismantling the center shaft and bearing, I am sure my PL-12D II needs it also!
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Old 31st Jan 2009, 8:19 am   #50
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Default Re: Pioneer PL-12D turntable maintenance

Cyclotoine,

Welcome to the forum.

Now you have had a post approved you should be able to use the PM system. If you left click on Howard's user name next to one of his posts the option should be available.

Regards,
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Old 31st Jan 2009, 5:02 pm   #51
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Default Re: Pioneer PL-12D turntable maintenance

To save Howard the effort of having to continue kindly e-mailing everybody the service manual, I've uploaded it to my webspace.

http://autodefence.com/thisoneman/pl...ice_manual.pdf
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Old 2nd Feb 2009, 10:06 pm   #52
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Default Re: Pioneer PL-12D turntable maintenance

Thanks Brian and Thanks Keiran!

Last edited by Darren-UK; 2nd Feb 2009 at 10:26 pm. Reason: Brain to Brian.
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Old 27th May 2009, 3:08 pm   #53
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Default Re: Pioneer PL-12D turntable maintenance

Howard, I'll send you PM.
Hope this thread is still watched by someone!
I would really appreciate operation and service manuals for PL12.
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Old 8th Jun 2009, 12:41 am   #54
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Default Re: Pioneer PL-12D turntable maintenance

Quote:
Originally Posted by howard View Post
Hello again,

I've bought a service manual off eBay from the USA for £7 inclusive so this thread can be closed.

If anyone wants a copy of it when it arrives send me a PM.

Howard
Hello Howard,
Could you send me a photocopy or mail me a scan. I have two PL-12D's but the audio signal is not transferred to the amplifier properly. I think some wire has been broken or a contact corroded. Anyway I need to open the player, and the service manual could be useful. Thanks in advance.
Sincerely,
Daniel Salomons
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Old 7th Oct 2009, 3:13 pm   #55
caroline
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Default Re: Pioneer PL-12D turntable maintenance

Hi,

you all seem very knowledgeable on PL12d's so was wondering if anyone has had the same problem as me, it's the opposite of broken - the belt won't stop turning, no matter what position the arm is in. I have to physically unplug it!

I am trying to find somewhere near me that can fix it but thought I would ask people first in case its just something I can do myself.

Any help would be fantastic!
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Old 8th Oct 2009, 1:05 pm   #56
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Default Re: Pioneer PL-12D turntable maintenance

Hello Caroline,

I've just fixed a 1974 Rotel turntable with the same problem, it turned out to be the mains filter capacitor which was short circuit. 70p from Maplins for a new one.

Howard
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Old 8th Oct 2009, 10:09 pm   #57
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Default Re: Pioneer PL-12D turntable maintenance

If anyone needs the service manual for the Pioneer PL-12D, it can be downloaded free from this website ...

http://www.vinylengine.com/

Howard
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Old 8th Oct 2009, 10:51 pm   #58
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Default Re: Pioneer PL-12D turntable maintenance

Quote:
Originally Posted by caroline View Post
Hi,

you all seem very knowledgeable on PL12d's so was wondering if anyone has had the same problem as me, it's the opposite of broken - the belt won't stop turning, no matter what position the arm is in. I have to physically unplug it!

I am trying to find somewhere near me that can fix it but thought I would ask people first in case its just something I can do myself.

Any help would be fantastic!
Hello again,

The Pioneer PL-12D has a capacitor across the mains terminal so that might have failed (solder in a new one same capacitance/voltage rating), or it could be that the microswitch operated by the function lever has jammed on. If it is broken, the Pioneer part number is KSF-023-0 (or KSF-023), those are available from Far Eastern dealers on ebay.

You will need to take the platter off, secure the arm, turn the unit upside down on a towel and then take the bottom off to gain access to these components. Unplug the turntable from the mains first.

Howard

Last edited by howard; 8th Oct 2009 at 10:56 pm.
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Old 8th Nov 2009, 10:16 am   #59
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Default Re: Pioneer PL-12D turntable maintenance

Another question on this deck has been moved to a new thread here.
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