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Old 20th Jul 2018, 10:45 am   #1
stevehertz
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Default Tungsram / Pinnacle valves - what about them?

Can anyone throw any light on Tungsram as in a producer/seller of valves? I recall as a teenager in the 60s and 70s how they were somewhat despised by engineers and I've also heard them described as second grade Mullards. A look at Wikipedia throws no light on my questions. I must admit, my own experiences with Tungsram valves has not been the best. So, Tungsram valves, what do you know?!
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 10:51 am   #2
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Default Re: Tungsram valves - what about them?

I never remember any problems with them.Mullard were in the main allways prefefered if available.

I started work in 1961 ,so I must have used a few.
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 10:59 am   #3
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Default Re: Tungsram valves - what about them?

Mullard themselves sourced valves from Tungsram towards the end of the valve era.
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 11:15 am   #4
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Default Re: Tungsram valves - what about them?

Well, there were never many that failed of either branding.
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 11:18 am   #5
dazzlevision
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Default Re: Tungsram valves - what about them?

I have used Tugsram valves from around 1970 and never had any problems. By that time, they were owned by Philips/Mullard (in the same way that the Dutch firm Pope was) and the valves were clearly sourced from Mullard.

Tungsram. The British Tungsram Radio Works Ltd (incorporated in 1933), West Road, Tottenham, London, N17 (in 1947) – this UK factory opened in 1934 and was a subsidiary of The United Incandescent Co of Budapest, Hungary. The UK operation assembled imported components and was largely concerned with the supply of the radio maintenance market. With the advent of WW2, the company had to manufacture from scratch in the UK. Tungsram of Hungary was in fact owned by several other companies with valve interests: GE (USA), Philips, etc. In 1944, the Custodian of Enemy Property sequestrated alll the shares of British Tungsram. At the end of the war, the International and Electrical Engineering Trust Ltd (which had acquired the various Tungsram companies in Europe) considered their sale. In 1952, Philips UK acquired a controlling interest and management control was passed to Mullard.

British Tungsram valves were distibuted by Siemens Electric Lamp and Supplies Ltd (later known as Siemens Bros. Ltd). In April 1956, it ceased to manufacture its own valves and its factory was closed. Thereafter, Mullard re-branded their own production for sale by Tungsram.

In 1957, Siemens Edison Swan Ltd ceased the UK distribution of Tungsram valves . Maker of radio valves (and had no interests outside of valve making). In the 1960’s, British Tungsram also marketed semiconductors made by Mullard/Philips (packed in screw topped aluminium tubes – like those used for cigars). British Tungsram Radio Works Ltd, West Road, Tottenham, London, N17. Still going in the early 1970’s. Around this time, the company appears to have been sold (or the right to use the Tungsram name ceased), as the packs were now branded Torvac (Tottenham Radio Valve Co Ltd.).
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 11:21 am   #6
Hartley118
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Default Re: Tungsram valves - what about them?

A Hungarian company, Tungsram claim to have invented the tungsten filament lamp (Hence tungsten + wolfram = Tungsram).

Tungsram has always adopted a very international perspective with worldwide marketing and a variety of global collaborations. For example, there was a British Tungsram Radio Works. I have a number of Tungsram valves which bear Mullard Blackburn etched codes. Looking briefly on eBay, they seem to be valued as highly as Mullard branded examples.

In 1990 GE acquired a major shareholding in Tungsram and the company is today a GE subsidiary. Prior to the GE interst, history records that Tungsram had suffered badly from Soviet Bloc mismanagement and I can well imagine there may then have been some quality problems in products emanating from the other side of the 'Iron Curtain'. I've never noticed any unusual problems in Tungsram valves myself, however.

And a Mullard code is what it is!

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Old 20th Jul 2018, 3:31 pm   #7
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Default Re: Tungsram valves - what about them?

In the London Gazette of 26th September 1978, the Tottenham Radio Valve Co Ltd was in the process of being dissolved.
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 8:05 pm   #8
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Default Re: Tungsram valves - what about them?

Later British Tungsram valves will be identical to Mullard or any other Philips group valves.

Hungarian Tungsram seem OK and I suspect they will be at least as good as RFT etc. They often pop up here bearing British brands such as Pinnacle.
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 8:23 pm   #9
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Default Re: Tungsram valves - what about them?

By the middle 70’s, the big makers were sourcing from wherever they could find valves. Quality went down but in the main it was a replacement market by then. There were few new sets using valves, valve production lines must have been winding down.

I never has far as I remember used Tungsram valves so cannot comment on their quality, by the middle 70’s we were using Pinnacle, they were badged valves made by many different factories.
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 8:24 pm   #10
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Default Re: Tungsram valves - what about them?

Pre-war, some Tungsram valves were fitted in a few British made radios. I believe Decca used them and a Sparton radio I have here employs the Tungsram 6TH8 as the frequency changer. It's a huge thing mounted on an international octal base.
From the Radiomuseum: https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6th8.html
Heater voltage apart it's similar to the ACH1.

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Old 20th Jul 2018, 8:38 pm   #11
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Default Re: Tungsram valves - what about them?

Tungsram valves came with a 12 month guarantee,as opposed to 3 months of all the other makers.

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Old 20th Jul 2018, 9:01 pm   #12
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Default Re: Tungsram valves - what about them?

I hate to admit it but I meant Pinnacle! So, please address my opening post comments wrt Pinnacle. Apologies everyone, not my fault it's my brain..
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Old 20th Jul 2018, 9:09 pm   #13
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Default Re: Tungsram valves - what about them?

Has previous post, we used Pinnacle from the middle 70’s, they were generally reliable but had a no quibble 12 month guarantee, what was also excellent for the service dept was no stocking costs. Pinnacle provided the valves we required, replenished monthly and only charged for what we used.
In the cash strapped 70’s not having to pay for the stock up front was well worth while.
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Old 21st Jul 2018, 6:15 am   #14
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Default Re: Tungsram valves - what about them?

Pinnacle - "Pick of the World's Valves". That used to be their slogan.

When I first left school, I worked in a small TV and radio shop for a couple of years and well remember the Pinnacle rep calling in every month to replenish the valves that we had used. You could see from the style of the glass pinch seals, internal construction and production markings, that they were sourced from a wide range of original manufacturers, but I never had any problems with them.

Here is all I have found out about the company:

Pinnacle Electronics Ltd, 27a Howland Street, London, W1 (in 1955 & 64). In 1955, they introduced a range of valves for the TV and Radio trade (sold by wholesalers and later, reps.). In 1958, the Managing Director was David Toms. In 1964 & 70, at Achilles Street, New Cross, London, SE14. In 1977, Pinnacle Electronic Components, Electron House, Cray Avenue, St Mary Cray, Orpington, Kent. Valve supplier – later semiconductors and stylii. Still going in 1978, with a range of valves, transistors, triplers, record/tape care kits and styli.
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Old 21st Jul 2018, 8:48 am   #15
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Default Re: Tungsram valves - what about them?

All the Pinnacle KT66s I've ever seen were simply re-badged GEC ones - the best of that type. I've no reason to believe they were seconds or poor quality in any way. But as everyone else has said, they sourced valves from wherever they could find them so I don't think it's possible to generalise.

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Old 21st Jul 2018, 8:59 am   #16
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Default Re: Tungsram valves - what about them?

Certainly the later valves were Mullard complete with codes. Never had the slightest problem with them.
Lots of myths about valve manufacturers disposing of 'reject' valves through other companies. Absolute rubbish! All rejects were scrapped. No valve maker of repute would allow their faulty rejects to leave the factory. We were all too clever at recognizing them whatever the name on the glass. Regards, John.
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Old 21st Jul 2018, 9:04 am   #17
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Default Re: Tungsram valves - what about them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzlevision View Post
Still going in 1978...
In my travels as a field engineer, I distinctly recall driving past the Pinnacle building in Cray Avenue on multiple occasions - would've been '83-'85 (before the M25 was fully formed). I believe it was still active then. Rediffusion also had a site nearby and there was a "Mothers Pride" bakery in the same vicinity. And with that, my memory reaches "End Of File"!
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Old 21st Jul 2018, 11:42 am   #18
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Default Re: Tungsram valves - what about them?

Pinnacle sourced valves from anywhere they were going cheap, including the USSR and eastern Europe. Some of their valves were UK manufacturers' overstocks. The were just the largest of a number of remarkers - Zaerix, Colomar, Bentley Acoustic etc.
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Old 21st Jul 2018, 12:52 pm   #19
TonyDuell
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Default Re: Tungsram valves - what about them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by volte-face View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzlevision View Post
Still going in 1978...
In my travels as a field engineer, I distinctly recall driving past the Pinnacle building in Cray Avenue on multiple occasions - would've been '83-'85 (before the M25 was fully formed). I believe it was still active then. Rediffusion also had a site nearby and there was a "Mothers Pride" bakery in the same vicinity. And with that, my memory reaches "End Of File"!
It wouldn't have been that far from the STC/Kolster Brandes site I think (although that had probably gone by that time). The bakery might well still be active, I go on the road from Orpington to Crittall's Corner quite often and the characteristic smell of such a company is still there sometimes.

Getting back to Pinnacle valves, My father and I used them to repair the home TV back in the 1970s. Never remember any problems with them. One oddity is that I have a Pinnacle catalogue somewhere and there's a photo at the start of a panel with a lot of valves pluged into it, the caption says that they are valves being aged for use in a computer. Were Pinnacle valves really used for that sort of application?
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Old 21st Jul 2018, 1:32 pm   #20
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Default Re: Tungsram / Pinnacle valves - what about them?

Commercial and industrial users certainly bought valves from remarkers as replacements. I inherited a valve hoard from someone who had worked at GEC in Wembley, and that included a lot of NOS valves from all the remarkers including Pinnacle. If GEC were specifying them for their in house lab gear then they must have been OK.
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