All I want is one good one.... - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Paulus.d · 23rd Oct 2018, 1:11 pm

Hiya …..
I have four reel to reel recorders . . . .
1. Tandberg series 15-4
2. Elizabethan LZ34
3. Elizabethan Popular 200
4. Elizabethan LZ29

They all have problems, the Tandberg...all nice and cleaned up, belt measured and replace...it keeps throwing the belt off, usually in the middle of recordings!

The LZ29 wont erase.. theres no power to the erase head at all

The LZ34 is probably the best machine, but slow

The popular.... working but very primitive..

My question.... I need to keep recordings to one or two machines as at the moment I'm attempting to use them all.... they all have good points ..the LZ29 wind speed is a marvel ….nice sound through external speaker on the Tandberg, reliable LZ34....simple Popular...
None of them have one common speed, they just don't agree...
What would you all do? Fix the Tandberg , sell the rest? Fix the LZ29?
I'm confused …….!
Paulus .D

Paulus.d · 23rd Oct 2018, 1:13 pm

How come the 71/2 IPS is all different anyhow

??

Restoration73 · 23rd Oct 2018, 2:59 pm

Definitely keep the Tandberg, 3 speeds, low wow and flutter. If the belt is designed to
have a twist in the middle, try twisting it the other way. Some manufacturers fitted a
small soft brush near a pulley to reduce belt movement.

NorfolkDaveUK · 23rd Oct 2018, 3:57 pm

If it were me I would service them all and then decide , they are all out of spec by the sounds of it and will just keep dishing up issues until they have been serviced .

Ted Kendall · 23rd Oct 2018, 7:29 pm

The best machine of the bunch is the Tandberg, by some margin. When properly sorted, it does not shed its belt - by which I mean the correct size of belt, correctly fitted. The Elizabethans are in a class below - OK domestics, but not worth messing about with when you have something better.

Domestic machines of the period can easily be 1-2% out on speed, but I'd put money on the Tandberg being closest to standard.

Paulus.d · 23rd Oct 2018, 7:52 pm

The Tandberg has been missing a correct size belt for a while....do you think the shedding is down to the size?

Ted Kendall · 23rd Oct 2018, 8:39 pm

Yes. Get a correct belt, fit it with the crossover in the right place, and the problem will go away.

Phil G4SPZ · 23rd Oct 2018, 8:50 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Restoration73

Some manufacturers fitted a small soft brush near a pulley to reduce belt movement...

I think the soft brush was actually designed to discharge static.

Maarten · 23rd Oct 2018, 9:02 pm

And/or to reduce mechanical oscillations.

julie_m · 23rd Oct 2018, 11:31 pm

The LZ29 should be the best of the Elizabethans, once you get the erase sorted. It has the highly-regarded Collaro Studio three-motor tape transport. Not quite in the Wearite class (!), but it could eat the BSR TD2 for breakfast.

Is yours the later version with the separate bias/erase oscillator board for source monitoring during recording, or the early version without this facility?

ben · 23rd Oct 2018, 11:48 pm

Where did you get the Tandberg belt from? I have never had one throw a belt off before. Is that the only fault it has?

I may be able to supply you with the correct one if you can't find a good replacement.

Personally I'd not waste much time on the two BSR based ones (Popular 200, LZ34). Once you have the Tandberg performing well, you won't ever want to go back to using them as main machines.

Michael Maurice · 24th Oct 2018, 9:22 am

I second what Ben says, I've never had a belt come off a Tandberg before.

I use this seller for belts etc, no connection but a very happy customer.

ricard · 24th Oct 2018, 10:35 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Maurice

I second what Ben says, I've never had a belt come off a Tandberg before.

Same here. The worst I've had with Tandberg belts is if the belt is too tight; it then tends to emit a random clicking sound as it twists while going around the pulleys.

Apart from positioning the twist in the right place, you could check the motor pulley height in the event that it is wrong for some reason. I'm not sure that would cause that problem though.

Another issue could be if part of one of the reel holder pulleys has come off (especially part of the groove in which the belt rides). They are made of plastic, and most of the one's I've seen tend to have developed small stress cracks and/or warp slightly. I've never seen one bad enough to fall apart or cause problems, but perhaps the OP's is the first one. (I'm always wondering what the pulleys will be like 50 years from now, or perhaps the cracks cause the stress to decrease to a level where nothing more will happen).

Paulus.d · 24th Oct 2018, 1:11 pm

thank you to all regarding these questions..... theLZ29 is the earier version...no second PCB …..
The popular 200 was a rubbish bin rescue ...not a serious contender but a little bit of fun...
I made the Tandberg belt from 3mm O ring cord we have at work so its probably not in spec ...ill pull it and replace it with a proper one ..i'll look for the damaged pulleys..
I like the collaro deck ….
Paul

ricard · 25th Oct 2018, 1:38 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paulus.d

I made the Tandberg belt from 3mm O ring cord we have at work so its probably not in spec ...ill pull it and replace it with a proper one ..i'll look for the damaged pulleys..

I've routinely used o-rings for Tandberg belts, they are a bit stiffer than real belts, but the Tandberg mechanics seems able to cope with it. If the o-ring belt is a little tight it can simply be stretched by pulling it (quite a lot, in order to stretch it).

There are o-rings made in large dimensions, I seem to recall a diameter of 189 mm is suitable for the model 15. Otherwise glueing together a belt with o-ring cord should be fine too.

ben · 25th Oct 2018, 3:45 pm

I've been using 189mm ones from a hydraulics specialist I know for years on mine, and they're still going strong - coming up for a decade of use.

I may be able to offer some for sale nearer xmas in the sale section, if there's any interest. Will post nearer the time.

Restoration73 · 25th Oct 2018, 4:34 pm

Original Tandberg spares still available as in this post
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=52094

Paulus.d · 29th Oct 2018, 10:48 am

Quick update for you all....
The LZ-29 has been put away. I can't find anything wrong with it and I have no patience to play with it. It's too heavy and old fashioned to use as a main machine.

The Tandberg, I reduced the diameter of the belt, it's now approx. 188mm. Wind is now at full power, nearly up to LZ-29 standard! It sounds great. Anyone know where a new speaker may be purchased, or a good second hand one? Also missing the lid.
I wish it had a grey carry case like the two track ones all seem to have.

The LZ-34's my oldest, put away but can't part with it. The Popular's OK for a bit of fun.
Paul

Paulus.d · 29th Oct 2018, 10:51 am

Maybe i'll combine the popular and the LZ-29 into a home brew tape machine?
Does anyone have the Collaro plastics?

Edward Huggins · 29th Oct 2018, 1:04 pm

I note you are seeking a replacement speaker. I believe these are 7" x 4" (3-5 ohms?) but you need to advise the rear clearance as the magnet size can vary.

23rd Oct 2018, 1:11 pm	#1
Paulus.d Hexode Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Margate, Kent, UK. Posts: 355	All I want is one good one.... Hiya ….. I have four reel to reel recorders . . . . 1. Tandberg series 15-4 2. Elizabethan LZ34 3. Elizabethan Popular 200 4. Elizabethan LZ29 They all have problems, the Tandberg...all nice and cleaned up, belt measured and replace...it keeps throwing the belt off, usually in the middle of recordings! The LZ29 wont erase.. theres no power to the erase head at all The LZ34 is probably the best machine, but slow The popular.... working but very primitive.. My question.... I need to keep recordings to one or two machines as at the moment I'm attempting to use them all.... they all have good points ..the LZ29 wind speed is a marvel ….nice sound through external speaker on the Tandberg, reliable LZ34....simple Popular... None of them have one common speed, they just don't agree... What would you all do? Fix the Tandberg , sell the rest? Fix the LZ29? I'm confused …….! Paulus .D

23rd Oct 2018, 1:13 pm	#2
Paulus.d Hexode Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Margate, Kent, UK. Posts: 355	Re: All I want is one good one.... How come the 71/2 IPS is all different anyhow??

23rd Oct 2018, 2:59 pm	#3
Restoration73 Nonode Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Surbiton, SW London, UK. Posts: 2,801	Re: All I want is one good one.... Definitely keep the Tandberg, 3 speeds, low wow and flutter. If the belt is designed to have a twist in the middle, try twisting it the other way. Some manufacturers fitted a small soft brush near a pulley to reduce belt movement.

23rd Oct 2018, 3:57 pm	#4
NorfolkDaveUK Banned Join Date: May 2018 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK. Posts: 605	Re: All I want is one good one.... If it were me I would service them all and then decide , they are all out of spec by the sounds of it and will just keep dishing up issues until they have been serviced .

23rd Oct 2018, 7:29 pm	#5
Ted Kendall Dekatron Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Kington, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 3,675	Re: All I want is one good one.... The best machine of the bunch is the Tandberg, by some margin. When properly sorted, it does not shed its belt - by which I mean the correct size of belt, correctly fitted. The Elizabethans are in a class below - OK domestics, but not worth messing about with when you have something better. Domestic machines of the period can easily be 1-2% out on speed, but I'd put money on the Tandberg being closest to standard.

23rd Oct 2018, 7:52 pm	#6
Paulus.d Hexode Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Margate, Kent, UK. Posts: 355	Re: All I want is one good one.... The Tandberg has been missing a correct size belt for a while....do you think the shedding is down to the size?

23rd Oct 2018, 8:39 pm	#7
Ted Kendall Dekatron Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Kington, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 3,675	Re: All I want is one good one.... Yes. Get a correct belt, fit it with the crossover in the right place, and the problem will go away.

23rd Oct 2018, 9:02 pm	#9
Maarten Dekatron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Haarlem, Netherlands Posts: 4,203	Re: All I want is one good one.... And/or to reduce mechanical oscillations.

23rd Oct 2018, 11:31 pm	#10
julie_m Dekatron Join Date: May 2008 Location: Derby, UK. Posts: 7,735	Re: All I want is one good one.... The LZ29 should be the best of the Elizabethans, once you get the erase sorted. It has the highly-regarded Collaro Studio three-motor tape transport. Not quite in the Wearite class (!), but it could eat the BSR TD2 for breakfast. Is yours the later version with the separate bias/erase oscillator board for source monitoring during recording, or the early version without this facility? __________________ If I have seen further than others, it is because I was standing on a pile of failed experiments.

23rd Oct 2018, 11:48 pm	#11
ben Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Madrid, Spain / Wirral, UK Posts: 7,498	Re: All I want is one good one.... Where did you get the Tandberg belt from? I have never had one throw a belt off before. Is that the only fault it has? I may be able to supply you with the correct one if you can't find a good replacement. Personally I'd not waste much time on the two BSR based ones (Popular 200, LZ34). Once you have the Tandberg performing well, you won't ever want to go back to using them as main machines. __________________ Regards, Ben.

24th Oct 2018, 9:22 am	#12
Michael Maurice Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Wembley, Middlesex Posts: 7,225	Re: All I want is one good one.... I second what Ben says, I've never had a belt come off a Tandberg before. I use this seller for belts etc, no connection but a very happy customer. __________________ Forum Moderator http://www.michaelmauricerepairs.co.uk/

24th Oct 2018, 1:11 pm	#14
Paulus.d Hexode Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Margate, Kent, UK. Posts: 355	Re: All I want is one good one.... thank you to all regarding these questions..... theLZ29 is the earier version...no second PCB ….. The popular 200 was a rubbish bin rescue ...not a serious contender but a little bit of fun... I made the Tandberg belt from 3mm O ring cord we have at work so its probably not in spec ...ill pull it and replace it with a proper one ..i'll look for the damaged pulleys.. I like the collaro deck …. Paul

25th Oct 2018, 3:45 pm	#16
ben Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Madrid, Spain / Wirral, UK Posts: 7,498	Re: All I want is one good one.... I've been using 189mm ones from a hydraulics specialist I know for years on mine, and they're still going strong - coming up for a decade of use. I may be able to offer some for sale nearer xmas in the sale section, if there's any interest. Will post nearer the time. __________________ Regards, Ben.

25th Oct 2018, 4:34 pm	#17
Restoration73 Nonode Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Surbiton, SW London, UK. Posts: 2,801	Re: All I want is one good one.... Original Tandberg spares still available as in this post https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=52094

29th Oct 2018, 10:48 am	#18
Paulus.d Hexode Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Margate, Kent, UK. Posts: 355	Re: All I want is one good one.... Quick update for you all.... The LZ-29 has been put away. I can't find anything wrong with it and I have no patience to play with it. It's too heavy and old fashioned to use as a main machine. The Tandberg, I reduced the diameter of the belt, it's now approx. 188mm. Wind is now at full power, nearly up to LZ-29 standard! It sounds great. Anyone know where a new speaker may be purchased, or a good second hand one? Also missing the lid. I wish it had a grey carry case like the two track ones all seem to have. The LZ-34's my oldest, put away but can't part with it. The Popular's OK for a bit of fun. Paul

29th Oct 2018, 10:51 am	#19
Paulus.d Hexode Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Margate, Kent, UK. Posts: 355	Re: All I want is one good one.... Maybe i'll combine the popular and the LZ-29 into a home brew tape machine? Does anyone have the Collaro plastics?

29th Oct 2018, 1:04 pm	#20
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,338	Re: All I want is one good one.... I note you are seeking a replacement speaker. I believe these are 7" x 4" (3-5 ohms?) but you need to advise the rear clearance as the magnet size can vary. __________________ Edward.