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Old 10th Jul 2017, 9:57 am   #81
steptoesyard
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

I am one of the paranoid group, and I'm not too old either (40!). I've had a few near misses over the years and every one makes me more and more wary about turning things off.

Years ago, around 1999/2000 I had a Grundig CRT TV that I always used to leave on standby, even when I worked away from home during the week, until one particular week...... I came home to find it wouldn't power up. Long story short, the power supply had failed, fried the main board, and the thing was finished. Luckily, nothing caught fire.

A friend of mine at work had two washing machines catch fire in as many years, both different makes. Then last year the dehumidifier that I use in my garage caught fire while I was away on a training course, luckily, again, it was an older one which was in a metal cabinet - the trip went and the fire went out.

It's fridges, freezers etc that scare me the most, look up fridge fire on youtube and it's scary. I removed the 13A fuse that mine was fitted with from new and fitted as low a value as I could without the current spike at start up blowing it (5A I think). I'm a bit more comfortable with that. Everything else I turn off at night....EVERYTHING!

Oh one more thing I do is disconnect the battery on the car that's in the garage (I very rarely use it), because I don`t trust car electrics either, and if that happened it`s goodbye car, bikes, garage, and house......easier to disconnect the battery!
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Old 10th Jul 2017, 10:09 am   #82
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

No discussions about car electrics please.
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Old 10th Jul 2017, 10:14 am   #83
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

Sorry I spoke.............
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Old 10th Jul 2017, 10:20 am   #84
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

My parent's Thorn TX9 telly from about 1982 (the last version with the TDA4600(?) SMPS) had a white plastic bodied mains filter mounted on the PCB. This went s/c one day and took out the 3A fuse I'd installed in the plug. If the previous owner's 13A fuse had still been in place, it might have been messy as the mains flex on these was very long and thin, and the set's own mains fuse was wired after the aforementioned filter, for reasons I can't really understand.

Regarding unplugging modern "smart" tellies, how quick are they to start up from cold? Certainly, unplugging my Humax Youview PVR is something I try to avoid, as it takes literally minutes to boot up, whilst displaying an infuriatingly untrue "nearly ready" message on screen.
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Old 10th Jul 2017, 10:43 am   #85
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

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Originally Posted by SiriusHardware View Post
...In these days of net connected smart TVs and computers with microphones and user-facing cameras ostensibly intended for use with applications like Skype, that can actually turn into a genuine threat.
Behind Winston's back the voice from the telescreen was still babbling away about pig-iron and the overfulfilment of the Ninth Three-Year Plan. The telescreen received and transmitted simultaneously. Any sound that Winston made, above the level of a very low whisper, would be picked up by it, moreover, so long as he remained within the field of vision which the metal plaque commanded, he could be seen as well as heard. There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment. How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But at any rate they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to. You had to live -- did live, from habit that became instinct -- in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every movement scrutinized.

(No attribution required methinks)
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Old 10th Jul 2017, 12:39 pm   #86
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

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Those plastic safety plugs must be one of the most useless things ever invented. Apart from being totally unnecessary with shuttered sockets, a child can pull it out and reinsert just the earth pin. They then grab a metal knitting needle, paper clip or W.H.Y and shove it in the holes. I've even seen them used in adult care homes!
And can damage the socket as the pins in a lot of cases are larger than the standard to make them 'fit' more securely.

Essentially by using them you are defeating the built in safety protection of BS1363 sockets.

a good website for this is

http://www.fatallyflawed.org.uk/

who are behind the campaign to get them outlawed, they are already now banned on NHS property.
And BEAMA are now in agreement! http://www.beama.org.uk/resourceLibr...et-covers.html
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Old 10th Jul 2017, 12:52 pm   #87
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

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One could question the use of switched sockets? Why are they needed?
The document which called for a new socket outlet, Post War Building Studies no 11, stated “On A.C. circuits, which we have assumed will be universal in new buildings, disconnection can be safely made by withdrawing the plug; the expense and complication of a separate switch is therefore unnecessary in the standard design. It may, however, be desirable to have an alternative standard design incorporating a switch for use where this additional convenience is required.“
The original BS 1363:1947 made no provision for switched sockets, however there was public demand (people had got used to switched BS 546 sockets) so in 1957 an additional standard was published, BS 2814:1957 "Two-pole and earthing-pin flush-mounted 13-Amp switch socket-outlets for A.C. circuits up to 250 Volts". Switched sockets were not incorporated into BS 1363 until 1967.
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Old 10th Jul 2017, 3:44 pm   #88
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

Socketman, As you clearly have a particular interest and knowledge of this subject, can I ask you what you think about the alternative patented shuttering mechanism used by M.K. that does not involve the earth pin?

This house was rewired in the mid '70s and is full of these sockets, they seem far more robust than anything seen recently and I certainly haven't had any issues with them.

When did they stop making them like that, I can't say I've seen a new one for years.

Likewise the classic MK plug from that era, with the push-in cord-grip, lovely plug, I still have a stock of them for the odd thing that doesn't have a pre-fitted plug.

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Old 11th Jul 2017, 8:58 pm   #89
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

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I find this topic interesting in the fact that most UK mains sockets still seem to be unswitched
Far from it, unswitched sockets are rare, and at least, in the trade are considered to be mainly fitted by contractors on housing developments where the lowest bidder gets the job.
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Old 11th Jul 2017, 9:10 pm   #90
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

The electrical wholesaler that I use stocks MK switched sockets, but not the unswitched ones. So I guess the demand for the latter is small.
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Old 11th Jul 2017, 9:18 pm   #91
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

Proper switched socket faceplates should switch the live pole, even to the right-hand socket of a dual-gang pair where the switch is on the left-hand, i.e. neutral, side; and break positively, not allowing the switch actuator to return to the OFF position if the contacts have welded closed.

I would only be very mildly surprised if there were dodgy ones out there that switched the neutral to one socket, or swapped over the live and neutral so both lives were towards the switches in the middle; and gave no warning of switch failure.
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Old 11th Jul 2017, 9:25 pm   #92
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

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I would only be very mildly surprised if there were dodgy ones out there that switched the neutral to one socket, or swapped over the live and neutral so both lives were towards the switches in the middle; and gave no warning of switch failure.
One of the cheap "3 lights" socket-testers will reveal any such naughtiness.
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Old 11th Jul 2017, 9:32 pm   #93
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

According to the MK website, their switched sockets switch live and neutral, and are designed so that neutral makes before live when switching on, and breaks after live when switching off. I can't find any mention of the actuator not going to the off position if the contacts are welded, but it wouldn't surprise me if they got that right.

Quite honestly, the difference in price between a known-brand socket outlet and some dubious thing is minimal, especially when you consider what damage the latter could do.
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Old 11th Jul 2017, 9:48 pm   #94
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

I just found a horrible, universal power socket, with USB 5V outlet. No switch (read: constantly-warm capacitors in the permanently-energised SMPSU), no shutters, holes designed to take any old thing, will accept a Schuko plug but not provide any earthing -- and only a 32A breaker upstream of any flimsy 2-core appliance flex on an unfused, 2-pin plug. Yuck! Oh, and it did not look flame-proof. Looked like some soft thermoplastic

It might just about be O.K. to use, downstream of a switched, fused spur unit (thus affording similar switching and fuse protection) and mounted above a shelf, out of the reach of children and pets. But you just know some idiot is going to fit some of these things down at skirting board level, alongside a bed .....
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Quite honestly, the difference in price between a known-brand socket outlet and some dubious thing is minimal, especially when you consider what damage the latter could do.
Indeed. As far as anything to do with power supply goes, there are many false economies to be made.

Not that that stops anyone charging a £500 phone from a £1 adaptor .....
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Old 11th Jul 2017, 10:40 pm   #95
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

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Socketman, As you clearly have a particular interest and knowledge of this subject, can I ask you what you think about the alternative patented shuttering mechanism used by M.K. that does not involve the earth pin?
My own house (1994) is fitted with those, and I have found them to be excellent. They require simultaneous insertion of both Line and Neutral pins of the correct size and shape to open the shutters. The shutters are made in a single piece which is pivoted in the centre, pressing on just one side causes the shutter to become locked and immovable. They are also designed such that the pins of a Europlug will be trapped and not open the shutters.

Sometime around 2000 they were superseded by the MK "Logic Plus" pattern which uses a patented 3-pin shutter operation. An earth pin needs to be in place to unlock the shutter mechanism, but then the shutters can only be opened by simultaneous insertion of both Line and Neutral pins.

Other patented BS 1363 sockets requiring the insertion of all three pins are also now made by Hager (Sollysta range) and Legrand (Synergy range).
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Old 11th Jul 2017, 11:12 pm   #96
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

Even although there are patented alternatives reckoned superior to the common BS1363 socket shutter (whatever happened to the spirit of Jonas Salk?), why would any manufacturer pay the royalties just to make a socket which is ever so slightly safer than a standard which is already deemed safe enough, knowing that they would always be playing second fiddle to the original inventors? Better to pass on the savings from making the best power socket faceplates you can without licensing unnecessary patents -- and try to time it so your mould tools don't begin wearing out until said patents have expired.
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Old 11th Jul 2017, 11:42 pm   #97
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

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They are also designed such that the pins of a Europlug will be trapped and not open the shutters.
You're not trying hard enough Europlugs fit into mine easily.
Perhaps they tweaked the design mid production to allow for this dangerous anomaly.

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Old 11th Jul 2017, 11:54 pm   #98
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Greg, where and when in Dudley? Thats my childhood home too.
Hi david,
new Birmingham road dudley, right opposite the roman mosaic across the burnt tree island.
Nice to know a fellow dudleyite.
greg.
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Old 12th Jul 2017, 8:41 am   #99
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

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Europlugs fit into mine easily.
Perhaps they tweaked the design mid production to allow for this dangerous anomaly.
Perhaps at the time that the regulations excluding Europlugs came about?
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Old 12th Jul 2017, 8:59 am   #100
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Default Re: Why did folk always unplug the telly at night?

I prefer switched socket outlets. I don't actually unplug household equipment as I consider this to be an unnecessary procedure with good quality switched socket outlets.
I never leave the washing machine unattended when in use, not just to monitor overheating etc but to be around should an internal hose burst or much more likely the main water supply flexible causing massive damage.

I witnessed this many times with my shop customers. They would leave the flexible hose from the water main under pressure and on a number of occasions this would burst [often when away on holiday]causing devastation to the kitchen and even more damage to the flat below.

Always turn off the water supply to your washing machine/dishwasher when not in use. You have been warned!

Tumble driers are a disaster and I do not own one. If you have no other way of drying your laundry NEVER leave it unattended when in use.

Switch off your electric kettle after use at the socket or unplug the connector. I once observed what could have been a very serious disaster. A kettle had been left plugged in and switched on at the socket leaving the auto cut off to isolate the element. During the night the kettles nasty cheap auto switch assembly had arced and burnt the entire end off the kettle. It had smoldered and burnt a large hole in a very thick timber bench in a motor workshop. Fortunately no other damage was caused.
I would add that the auto mechanism was a cheap nasty unit used on a large number of kettles and was very flimsy.

I think modern appliances are more dangerous than the ones we had two decades ago.
The use of plastic for washing machine and fridge cabinets is crazy. Horrible to recycle and potentially dangerous.

Connectors are also poor causing arcing and I have no doubt that most motors and switches are just about coping with nothing to spare.

Unfortunately many electronic items are designed to be left in standby for long periods.
Mains switches if fitted tend to be in inaccessible positions and mains sockets hidden behind cabinets etc. There is also a tendency to 'build everything in' resulting in possibly poor ventilation.

It was much easier when you unplugged your TV every night before going to bed but of course that did not prevent the fires caused by receivers such as the Ekco where the LOPT case actually caught fire during the night some hours after switch off.
The case would burn and smolder during an evenings viewing with no apparent effect on the picture especially if the owner was elderly and would go unnoticed. It continued to kindle during the night and could end with the receiver bursting into flames in the early hours.
Obviously unplugging would not prevent problems with this type of fault. Regards, John.
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