Ferguson C51N (ICC8) Frame Fault Help Needed

[steve1010uk]

The ICC range were never my favourite sets, i found the best way to deal with these was to carefully look at every soldered joint take your time as dry joints on these chassis could be anywhere and often where least expected, if in doubt resolder everything.

[3CX15000A7]

When going for a higher end Philips from the late 80s or 90s, you probably need to refoam the bass unit. Most matchline units I see around here the bass units are in very poor condition. It's fixable for sure.

I have two FL1.0 (50Hz matchlines from the early 90s), both had bad speakers due to the foam was broken down (one didn't had any foam left at all!)

In my experience, most Philips chassis are extremely reliable from that era but picture quality is not so consistent. Last few years I picked up a lot of them, used it for some months (sometimes as main set) and never had one really failed. Most problems I had with them were the speakers, worn tubes and some small picture inperfections mostly caused by design I concluded after intensive search on sets.

Personally I really can recommend the FL1.0/FL1.10, these are easy to work on, good spacious PCB (that not turned brown, pads that stay on too if you aren't very careful) and one of the cleanest picture I ever saw. The Anubis series are also very good, but those hadn't the sound of a matchline. Picturewise I really like these (especially the Anubis B) and except for the LOPT in the A versions, they seem to be reliable too.

I had less Experience I had with CP110 and GR2.* picture wise. I found these to had mediocore picture (GR2.2 dull due to poor RGB section, GR2.4 very poor greayscale/black crush, CP110 not clean overall) and the PCB's are a lot cheaper and much more cramped compared to a FL. Although none had blew up or broken down on me, besides due to some own ****ups (although all fixable after all)

[George Cooper]

Personally I had no love for the ICC series chassis, it was common to start with one fault and end up with two more.

I had a look in my spares box and found two NOS TDA8170 Ic's and one TDA8170FS. I have no idea if they are compatible or not, but I have posted a photo of the three, perhaps Maaten might like to check them out and provide any insight as how to spot a fake.

If any of these chips are suitable you are welcome to them FOC.

[IKC2E51R8]

i've always liked the Thomson range of Ferguson's (and Ferguson in general) and while not always the most reliable I just love them. Ive always likes their styling especially the A series. My nanny had an E51R8 (Irish version of the A51F) and it was such a great set that during its relatively short 7 main years of service only broke down once when something on the txt board failed, after that it became a bedroom set that i used to play Sega on, I remember one night I accidently knocked a glass of water over that was sitting on top of it (it was off at the time), went right down into it, I just left it unplugged for 2 days and on the 3rd day i tried to turn it on, came on as if nothing happened. Not long after though my nanny felt it was in the way and sent it out to the garden shed (shed with a leaky roof and no door) at one point during very bad weather i vividly remember seeing water from torrential rain half way up the set. a couple weeks later i asked if i could have it and bring it to my other nana's house where i had my own little living room, she said yea if it works so i brought it inside, tried to turn it on, came on straight away ( i have to say i think it was one of the more resilient IKC2 sets) it worked for about 4 months then one day it wouldn't come on anymore, kept tripping, it was brought to a local repair man who said (memory board leaking) which i think now was the NiCad battery had leaked causing breaks in the track between the PO line to the Micro) anyway he wanted 70 quid to fix it and my nana didn't wanna pay that much and i was 14 and had no money so it was left with him and he sold us a Grundig G1000 set as a replacement (which i regret, the G1000 wasn't a bad set it just wasn't the same) it was really that set that started my love for Ferguson's.

In terms of Philips sets, i grew up with an Anubis AAC set which my mam had, That set i have to say was a real good set, it had excellent picture decent (for what it was) sound and it just kept on going and going and going, it was eventually retired from service my mum wanted a bigger set. after sometime as a bedroom set and a house move later It eventually broke( the chassis developed a crack during the house move) it was left in storage until 2022 when i got a replacement board for it and now its back fully working but still in storage.

I have a GR2.2 in my collection also that was another set i grew up with that my nana had, Always loved the GR2.2 she had, it was eventually given to a family member and I head it 'blew up' and never heard what happened to it afterwards, i ended up getting the GR2.2 I have now in 2009, it broke around 2011 and was left in the attic until 2020 when i sourced a replacement chassis for it I was using it as my main CRT until i fixed the ICC5 i have now ( which was also a childhood model, my mum had a E51K5 from when i was born till she got the Anubis set in 1995)

I love my ICC5 set and the main reason i got the ICC8 set was so that i could have a very similar set with great picture, great sound and the nice Ferguson styling i like so that i could put the ICC5 into storage to essentially keep it in working condition, being an ICC5 i know it doesn't take much to upset them and I dont wanna risk something else going pop in it, in fairness though since i fixed it in January its been going strong without issue.

I have 5x NOS TDA8178's on their way and im going to more or less blanket re-solder everywhere first before i install the new IC, I have some small blank PCBs that im thinking of installing the IC on and then wiring to the next part of the circuit on the main board from it rather than damaging the board any further, also if i do it this way should the IC fail again it'll be easier to replace, i just need to find a suitable way to mount it within the chassis in a way that wont interfere with any other components and will be secure.

[IKC2E51R8]

Originally Posted by George Cooper

Personally I had no love for the ICC series chassis, it was common to start with one fault and end up with two more.

I had a look in my spares box and found two NOS TDA8170 Ic's and one TDA8170FS. I have no idea if they are compatible or not, but I have posted a photo of the three, perhaps Maaten might like to check them out and provide any insight as how to spot a fake.

If any of these chips are suitable you are welcome to them FOC.

I really appreciate that, I think the TDA8170 would be compatible but would probably need some sort of modification to work properly, what that mod would be I've no idea though.

i will see how i get on with the 5 i have on the way, i'll post a pic of them once they arrive and hopefully someone can verify they are legit.

[IKC2E51R8]

So I've fitted a new Field IC. Set still trips, then I replaced RP62, it smoked when I tried turning the set on again.

I noticed the IC is getting hot. The search for this fault continues

[IKC2E51R8]

Quick Update

First I've solved the random tripping which was caused by RP31 in the power supply making an intermittent connection due to damaged track.

after a lot of work I have deflection back, i replaced RP62, the IC, DF16-19 and finally got the picture back, there is now just one more problem and one more concern.

There is deflection but there's like a fold over effect on the bottom portion of the screen ( see pics) not sure whether there's another suspect cap or something else. the main four diodes were replaced along with the IC so i dont suspect them being at issue so perhaps its a cap or resistor causing it. Would anyone know based on the pictures (if you've seen this effect before) which is the usual culprit?

Any help appreciated, I'm a little hesitant about playing around with the field circuit too much now given how sensitive it can seemingly be.

Also one concern i have is I had to mount the new Field IC on a separate board as the pads were too badly damaged, I bought some little TO-220 sized heatsinks for the IC and have the IC mount on it, it is getting quite hot and Im wondering do you think the little heatsink will be enough to stop the IC from overheating? Attached is a pic of the little heatsinks.

[IKC2E51R8]

here's a better picture of the problem with a signal being fed via AV. The picture is very washed out and dull, flickering, crushed at the bottom with lines and there is also a hint of flyback lines visible also the raster shrinks when turning from tuner to AV when the video is displayed.

[G6ONEDave]

If the frame output chip is getting very hot then I would increase the size of the heatsink to something with at least the same area as the chassis mounted one. TO220 size is probably too small. There might be something more suitable for a TOP3 type heatsink, or something designed for an audio output chip.

Don't run the set for too long a time as you don't want to kill the frame output due to overheating it!

If you have the data sheet for the output chip, it should quote a heat disipation figure for the appropriate heatsink that is required.

Dave

[andrewn]

In a fault finding book I own it says check DR61 (5.1V Zener diode) for leakage. It causes flickering picture/flyback lines/field displacement. Apparently its located on the main pcb behind the CD1 daughter board.

[IKC2E51R8]

Originally Posted by andrewn

In a fault finding book I own it says check DR61 (5.1V Zener diode) for leakage. It causes flickering picture/flyback lines/field displacement. Apparently its located on the main pcb behind the CD1 daughter board.

I seen that tip about DR61 and i changed it but no change. I have discovered though that the washed out picture was only on the AV station due to an issue with the Scart/txt board which ive fixed but i still have the lines on the screen as in the first few pictures. Ive changed CF24 and CF04 as i thought they might have been causing problems, no change.

Not sure where to look exactly, I have found a bigger heatsink that ive swiped from an LG Flatscreen that has similar dimensions to the original heatsink so later i'll add that so at least the IC will be cooler and less likely die.