Philips 210 tuner fault? - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

acottrell · 27th Aug 2015, 10:33 am

Hi Everyone
I have a 23" single standard 210 chassis. The set worked perfectly when I first got it with no work required. The tuner seemed stable no issues.
All of a sudden I lost the signal and connot tune into anything on all buttons.
However I have an old cross hatch generator which normally works at the lower end on the band. The set does pick up a very weak snowy picture from the cross hatch on the top BBC1 button only nearly right at the top of the range?
I have checked the resistors which all show correct values on the tuner. There is a diode on the tuner. It reads one way and not the other so would have thought thats ok too.
Can anyone point me in the right direction of what to look for next?
Many Thanks
Ade

MALC SCOTT · 27th Aug 2015, 11:10 am

If the tuner uses BF180/BF181 transistors they could be faulty. I have known them give this problem on other UHF tuners of that era. Check supply volts, Malc.

acottrell · 27th Aug 2015, 12:10 pm

Thanks Malc

Will check the suppy and transistors to the tuner. Does anyone know where I can find the Philips 210 service manual?

Is it listed on the DVD on the forum to be downloaded, does anyone know?

Thanks,

Ade

Peter.N. · 27th Aug 2015, 3:00 pm

If its a varicap tuner the tuning voltage could be missing/incorrect.

Peter

dazzlevision · 27th Aug 2015, 3:37 pm

Hello,

Philips fitted two types of tuner in this chassis. Originally, it used Germanium transistors (with a small "AGC translator" PCB fitted on it) and later, Silicon types. Therefore, they are not the same.

I think the original Philips full service manual only covered the Germanium type, but a supplement was published later to cover the Silicon version. Philips (CES - Combined Electronic Services) also published a service manual for the UV1 integrated tuner (germanium transistors): CES756 Nov 69.

The original Philips 210 chassis manual is for models: G19T210A, G19T211A, G23T210A & G23T211A, ref. CES670, March 68.

The fact your set uses a 23" rather than a 24" CRT is likely to indicate the tuner fitted is a Germanium type.

If my memory is correct, there was a (red print?) warning label fitted to the original Germanium tuner, advising that the tuner chassis was not at the same potential as the main chassis was.

Regards,

Dazzlevision

acottrell · 27th Aug 2015, 3:38 pm

Thanks Peter. Will get hold of a service manual if i can and check it out

dazzlevision · 27th Aug 2015, 3:39 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter.N.

If its a varicap tuner the tuning voltage could be missing/incorrect.

The Philips 210 chassis never used a varicap tuner. That only appeared in their 320 all solid state UK designed and made chassis.

Regards,

Dazzlevision

acottrell · 27th Aug 2015, 5:23 pm

Thanks Dazzlevision

acottrell · 27th Aug 2015, 5:27 pm

Hello Dazzlevision
The set is the later type it has a date on the tube 1971. The tuner is a four selector single standard tuner with only a few resistors and one doide on the tuner assembly tag. There are no transistors on the tuner itself.
Thanks
Ade

dazzlevision · 27th Aug 2015, 5:56 pm

Hello Ade,

In that case, I think your set is a 300 chassis UHF/625 single standard model, rather than a 210 chassis (which is dual standard - 405/625). In addition, the tube will be a 24" type (A61-120W/R) and not a 23". The 210 and 300 chassis are hybrid - a mixture of valve and transistor circuitry. The 300 will not have a long "lifer type" of 405-625 system switch fitted on the large printed circuit panel at the bottom of the main chassis.

The 300 chassis UHF only tuner will have two Silicon transistors in it: BF180 (RF amp) and BF181 (mixer/oscillator).

Regards,

Dazzlevision

acottrell · 28th Aug 2015, 6:09 pm

Hi Dazzlevision
I never knew any of that thought they were all 210 chassis. Yes my mistake you are correct with the tube number and the two transistors i can see on the board not far from the tuner plug. might try testing these first
Thanks for the info

Ade

dazzlevision · 28th Aug 2015, 6:57 pm

Hello,

Be very careful when you remove the two transistors inside the UHF tuner. The positioning and lengths of their lead outs is critical and if changed can affect the tuner's alignment.

In addition, use a low wattage iron when desoldering, especially for the lead(s) that are soldered to the uninsulated small circular disc ceramic capacitors that have the other side soldered directly to the tuners "chassis".

Regards,

Dazzlevision

acottrell · 29th Aug 2015, 6:41 pm

Hi Dazzlevision
Yes will be careful with lead lenghs and heat. I have ordered both of them will let you know how it goes
thanks for your help again

27th Aug 2015, 10:33 am	#1
acottrell Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sedgley, Dudley, West Midlands, UK. Posts: 242	Philips 210 tuner fault? Hi Everyone I have a 23" single standard 210 chassis. The set worked perfectly when I first got it with no work required. The tuner seemed stable no issues. All of a sudden I lost the signal and connot tune into anything on all buttons. However I have an old cross hatch generator which normally works at the lower end on the band. The set does pick up a very weak snowy picture from the cross hatch on the top BBC1 button only nearly right at the top of the range? I have checked the resistors which all show correct values on the tuner. There is a diode on the tuner. It reads one way and not the other so would have thought thats ok too. Can anyone point me in the right direction of what to look for next? Many Thanks Ade

27th Aug 2015, 11:10 am	#2
MALC SCOTT Octode Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Willington, County Durham, UK. Posts: 1,499	Re: Phillps 210 tuner fault? If the tuner uses BF180/BF181 transistors they could be faulty. I have known them give this problem on other UHF tuners of that era. Check supply volts, Malc. __________________ Malc Scott

27th Aug 2015, 12:10 pm	#3
acottrell Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sedgley, Dudley, West Midlands, UK. Posts: 242	Re: Phillps 210 tuner fault? Thanks Malc Will check the suppy and transistors to the tuner. Does anyone know where I can find the Philips 210 service manual? Is it listed on the DVD on the forum to be downloaded, does anyone know? Thanks, Ade

27th Aug 2015, 3:00 pm	#4
Peter.N. Dekatron Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Charmouth, Dorset, UK. Posts: 3,601	Re: Phillps 210 tuner fault? If its a varicap tuner the tuning voltage could be missing/incorrect. Peter

27th Aug 2015, 3:37 pm	#5
dazzlevision Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Near Swindon, North Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 3,611	Re: Phillps 210 tuner fault? Hello, Philips fitted two types of tuner in this chassis. Originally, it used Germanium transistors (with a small "AGC translator" PCB fitted on it) and later, Silicon types. Therefore, they are not the same. I think the original Philips full service manual only covered the Germanium type, but a supplement was published later to cover the Silicon version. Philips (CES - Combined Electronic Services) also published a service manual for the UV1 integrated tuner (germanium transistors): CES756 Nov 69. The original Philips 210 chassis manual is for models: G19T210A, G19T211A, G23T210A & G23T211A, ref. CES670, March 68. The fact your set uses a 23" rather than a 24" CRT is likely to indicate the tuner fitted is a Germanium type. If my memory is correct, there was a (red print?) warning label fitted to the original Germanium tuner, advising that the tuner chassis was not at the same potential as the main chassis was. Regards, Dazzlevision

27th Aug 2015, 3:38 pm	#6
acottrell Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sedgley, Dudley, West Midlands, UK. Posts: 242	Re: Phillps 210 tuner fault? Thanks Peter. Will get hold of a service manual if i can and check it out

27th Aug 2015, 5:23 pm	#8
acottrell Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sedgley, Dudley, West Midlands, UK. Posts: 242	Re: Phillps 210 tuner fault? Thanks Dazzlevision

27th Aug 2015, 5:27 pm	#9
acottrell Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sedgley, Dudley, West Midlands, UK. Posts: 242	Re: Phillps 210 tuner fault? Hello Dazzlevision The set is the later type it has a date on the tube 1971. The tuner is a four selector single standard tuner with only a few resistors and one doide on the tuner assembly tag. There are no transistors on the tuner itself. Thanks Ade

27th Aug 2015, 5:56 pm	#10
dazzlevision Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Near Swindon, North Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 3,611	Re: Phillps 210 tuner fault? Hello Ade, In that case, I think your set is a 300 chassis UHF/625 single standard model, rather than a 210 chassis (which is dual standard - 405/625). In addition, the tube will be a 24" type (A61-120W/R) and not a 23". The 210 and 300 chassis are hybrid - a mixture of valve and transistor circuitry. The 300 will not have a long "lifer type" of 405-625 system switch fitted on the large printed circuit panel at the bottom of the main chassis. The 300 chassis UHF only tuner will have two Silicon transistors in it: BF180 (RF amp) and BF181 (mixer/oscillator). Regards, Dazzlevision

28th Aug 2015, 6:09 pm	#11
acottrell Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sedgley, Dudley, West Midlands, UK. Posts: 242	Re: Philips 210 tuner fault? Hi Dazzlevision I never knew any of that thought they were all 210 chassis. Yes my mistake you are correct with the tube number and the two transistors i can see on the board not far from the tuner plug. might try testing these first Thanks for the info Ade

28th Aug 2015, 6:57 pm	#12
dazzlevision Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Near Swindon, North Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 3,611	Re: Philips 210 tuner fault? Hello, Be very careful when you remove the two transistors inside the UHF tuner. The positioning and lengths of their lead outs is critical and if changed can affect the tuner's alignment. In addition, use a low wattage iron when desoldering, especially for the lead(s) that are soldered to the uninsulated small circular disc ceramic capacitors that have the other side soldered directly to the tuners "chassis". Regards, Dazzlevision

29th Aug 2015, 6:41 pm	#13
acottrell Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sedgley, Dudley, West Midlands, UK. Posts: 242	Re: Philips 210 tuner fault? Hi Dazzlevision Yes will be careful with lead lenghs and heat. I have ordered both of them will let you know how it goes thanks for your help again