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Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players Open-reel tape recorders, cassette recorders, 8-track players etc.

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Old 2nd Apr 2019, 10:25 am   #1
cornwall60s
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Default Akai 4000D FF/Play issues

Would anybody be able to help with a play/rewind issue with an Akai 4000D. I've had the machine for a few years now, and it worked fine but has gradually deteriorated over the year or so.

Without any tapes loaded Play, Fast Forward and Rewind all have no issues at all. Everything engages correctly and runs smoothly. See video below;

https://youtu.be/_lo9I7uv4o8

With a tape loaded outside of the tape path it Fast Forwards and Plays fine, and also Rewinds (albeit is a bit slowly). See video below;

https://youtu.be/XED8o6ImlyE

With a tape loaded and running through the tape path it Fast Forwards ok, but no Play or Rewind, no movement at all. See video below;

https://youtu.be/Xr_oeDzIvE8


Once there is any tension then other than fast forward I just cannot get the thing to budge. It has a relatively new belt (last year) and I’ve replaced the felt in the supply reel (but not take up reel). Again everything engages but with the added tension from the tape there is no movement in Play and in Rewind the idler just spins against the supply reel, but doesn’t move it.

Can anybody offer any suggestions? I’m pretty much a novice but learning and determined to get this thing working again!! So any advice is gratefully appreciated.

Richard
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Old 2nd Apr 2019, 11:09 am   #2
TIMTAPE
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Default Re: Akai 4000D FF/Play issues

Hard to see in the video but it looks like you may have the tape threaded incorrectly. It looks like the tape is not contacting the tape heads but is threaded around some parts below them.

Also it looks like you haven't threaded the tape around the auto stop arm to the right of the pinch roller. I can see the arm is sitting low because the tape is not holding it up.
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Old 2nd Apr 2019, 11:12 am   #3
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Default Re: Akai 4000D FF/Play issues

Sorry, yes, could well be not quite correctly spooled (i filmed very early this morning...), but can assure that spooled correctly (with cover on) the problem is exactly the same.
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Old 2nd Apr 2019, 11:42 am   #4
dave walsh
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Default Re: Akai 4000D FF/Play issues

The squealing noise suggests a problem with the clutch mechanism Richard but I can't advise you re that [others will]. Re the auto stop lever Tim, the power switch has ON and SHUT OFF. In the latter position power is off if the tape doesn't hold it up, as you say but when ON is selected the auto stop does not operate. That's one aspect solved anyway! [I had to look at my 4000 to confirm].

Dave

Have you come across the problem with crumbling cams on these machines Richard? If not take care when operating the two levers and look it up in the search box at the top of the Forum front page.
A classic fault with these otherwise great recorders and difficult to repair!

Oh I see you posted re this problem last June. Is it the same machine? Sticky Tape Syndrome was mentioned then.

Last edited by dave walsh; 2nd Apr 2019 at 11:54 am.
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Old 2nd Apr 2019, 12:06 pm   #5
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Default Re: Akai 4000D FF/Play issues

Thanks Dave. Yes, this is the same problem as last year. I tried to re-open that thread but it's closed unfortunately. The machine has slowly got worse over the past 12 months, and I'm having problems with all tapes now, not just those I know to suffer with Sticky Shed. Luckily I've had access to a refurbed Revox A77 over the past year, but I'm determined to get this Akai up and running properly again! I'll have a search for the crumbling cams issue!
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Old 2nd Apr 2019, 8:58 pm   #6
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Default Re: Akai 4000D FF/Play issues

Hi try the motor run capacitors, they may need replacing.
Rob
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Old 2nd Apr 2019, 11:32 pm   #7
Michael Maurice
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Default Re: Akai 4000D FF/Play issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robstan234 View Post
Hi try the motor run capacitors, they may need replacing.
Rob
I don't think the motor run capacitor is the fault because the motor is turning during the fault.

Can you thread the tape correctly then post a video of it in play made.

Can you then remove the tape, put it into rewind and then stall the left hand turntable. How easy is it to stall? more importantly which parts stall. can you post a video?

With the machine off, switch to rewind, how easily does the RH turntable spin? it should spin very easily. Now try that with FF and see how easily the LH spool spins.

Please note there will be resistance in play, because clutches engage to give back tension.

FWIW I think the two idlers and possibly the tyre round the supply spool have failed due to old age.
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Old 3rd Apr 2019, 1:59 am   #8
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Default Re: Akai 4000D FF/Play issues

There is a squeal in the third video. Sticky Shed was mentioned. When just one SSS tape has deposited its waxy gunk on the tape path it's important to clean all the gunk off, which may take some time to do properly. Remaining gunk may affect playing of other good tapes. For easy viewing and access, clean with the machine on its back and in a good, strong light. Dont forget the erase head. Dark coloured gunk can be missed on a black coloured erase head.
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Old 3rd Apr 2019, 11:37 am   #9
cornwall60s
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Default Re: Akai 4000D FF/Play issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Maurice View Post
I don't think the motor run capacitor is the fault because the motor is turning during the fault.

Can you thread the tape correctly then post a video of it in play made.

Can you then remove the tape, put it into rewind and then stall the left hand turntable. How easy is it to stall? more importantly which parts stall. can you post a video?

With the machine off, switch to rewind, how easily does the RH turntable spin? it should spin very easily. Now try that with FF and see how easily the LH spool spins.

Please note there will be resistance in play, because clutches engage to give back tension.

FWIW I think the two idlers and possibly the tyre round the supply spool have failed due to old age.
Thanks for your help, I'll try and film this tonight or tomorrow. Having had another quick look at the machine last night I am inclined to think it might be the same thing. I did find last night while trying to spool a tape the supply reel didn't spin very well, take up moved freely, but the the supply is very stiff, which is never used to be.

Once in Rewind the spool reel is very easy to stall, it requires little effort. The idler usually continues to run, spinning against the tyre but not making enough contact to make it move.

Here's the videos, hopefully capturing what you mentioned?

https://youtu.be/1JmOQ1N0IuM

https://youtu.be/MI3yFXqBc8s
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Old 5th Apr 2019, 12:36 am   #10
Michael Maurice
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Default Re: Akai 4000D FF/Play issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by TIMTAPE View Post
Hard to see in the video but it looks like you may have the tape threaded incorrectly. It looks like the tape is not contacting the tape heads but is threaded around some parts below them.

Also it looks like you haven't threaded the tape around the auto stop arm to the right of the pinch roller. I can see the arm is sitting low because the tape is not holding it up.
I am thinking the same, the angle at which the tape contacts the erase head seems completely wrong.

The idlers are very worn
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Old 5th Apr 2019, 2:22 am   #11
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Default Re: Akai 4000D FF/Play issues

Here is the 4000D tape path when the front cover is installed. The tape runs across a large roller guide. Without them I'm wondering if the tape catches on the edge of the erase head as it's forced around it at a sharp angle.

https://youtu.be/F4TI7Bzt1wM
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Old 5th Apr 2019, 6:05 am   #12
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Default Re: Akai 4000D FF/Play issues

It's a little harder to thread with everything dismantled. When the machine is all put together and threaded correctly the problem remains exactly the same.

I will replace the idlers and see if that helps. It also might be worth replacing the rubber ring on the feeder. Does anbody know what size it might be, or where to pick up a suitable replacement?
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Old 5th Apr 2019, 10:51 am   #13
Michael Maurice
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Default Re: Akai 4000D FF/Play issues

It looks like the left hand guides are fixed to the top cover.

You'll probably need a new pinch roller.

When you stall the spools as in post 10, does the motor stall as well?

You'd be best to get the idlers and pinch roller rebuilt, though thats getting into expensive territory.
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Old 5th Apr 2019, 11:05 am   #14
cornwall60s
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Default Re: Akai 4000D FF/Play issues

No, at no point does the motor stall, it keeps running.

I was looking at getting a new pinch roller, I can pick up the tyre online, is it a (relatively) easy job to replace the tyre myself?

I can hopefully pick up some 2nd hand idlers online, but its a bit of a gamble as they could be in no better shape than the current ones!
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Old 5th Apr 2019, 11:11 am   #15
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Default Re: Akai 4000D FF/Play issues

Certainly looks like idlers as the motor continues to turn. I have a 4000DS which plays/records fine until the supply reel is almost run out. The machine then starts to slow and so do all the idlers etc. including the motor. So I think it is probably poor motor torque and I may have to try replacing the motor capacitor? I do have a 4000D which you can have if you want it. It worked great but has not been used for a while as a Teac has taken over tape duties in that respect. The 4000D had a new capstan roller fitted built by Terry's in the USA, had great fun with it and the infamous cam was in good condition last time I looked. Not sure where you are, I am in Watford, Herts.
Wow just seen your location, Cornwall a bit too far in my little Smart car Possible meet half way?
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Old 5th Apr 2019, 11:51 am   #16
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Default Re: Akai 4000D FF/Play issues

I will drop you a PM!
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Old 5th Apr 2019, 3:12 pm   #17
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Default Re: Akai 4000D FF/Play issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by cornwall60s View Post

I was looking at getting a new pinch roller, I can pick up the tyre online, is it a (relatively) easy job to replace the tyre myself?
I just bought one for my GX 280D-SS. Followed the instructions and all worked well except the metal hub had two slightly different diameters and I had to build up the smaller diameter with tape to match the larger. The tyre was quite a tight fit and I'm concerned it will try to creep off the hub. It was also tricky to get it to sit true with no runout but so far it works flawlessly. I'm hoping to have success gluing the tyre to the hub. Be careful to order the correct sized tyre for your machine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cornwall60s View Post
I can hopefully pick up some 2nd hand idlers online, but its a bit of a gamble as they could be in no better shape than the current ones!
As Michael said, paying for rerubbered idlers can quickly push up the costs. I would first clean and even carefully roughen/deglaze the surfaces of the existing idler tyres to try and improve the grip. While doing this I'd also clean and reoil the idlers' bearings, being careful not to get any lubricant on the tyre surfaces.


With no capstan shaft collar fitted, it's more likely there will be tape slip at the capstan. Not only because there's less surface area to transmit the drive to the tape but also because in this state there is less pressure from the pinch roller as its spring isn't as tensioned.
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