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Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players Open-reel tape recorders, cassette recorders, 8-track players etc. |
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2nd Apr 2019, 10:25 am | #1 |
Triode
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 29
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Akai 4000D FF/Play issues
Would anybody be able to help with a play/rewind issue with an Akai 4000D. I've had the machine for a few years now, and it worked fine but has gradually deteriorated over the year or so.
Without any tapes loaded Play, Fast Forward and Rewind all have no issues at all. Everything engages correctly and runs smoothly. See video below; https://youtu.be/_lo9I7uv4o8 With a tape loaded outside of the tape path it Fast Forwards and Plays fine, and also Rewinds (albeit is a bit slowly). See video below; https://youtu.be/XED8o6ImlyE With a tape loaded and running through the tape path it Fast Forwards ok, but no Play or Rewind, no movement at all. See video below; https://youtu.be/Xr_oeDzIvE8 Once there is any tension then other than fast forward I just cannot get the thing to budge. It has a relatively new belt (last year) and I’ve replaced the felt in the supply reel (but not take up reel). Again everything engages but with the added tension from the tape there is no movement in Play and in Rewind the idler just spins against the supply reel, but doesn’t move it. Can anybody offer any suggestions? I’m pretty much a novice but learning and determined to get this thing working again!! So any advice is gratefully appreciated. Richard |
2nd Apr 2019, 11:09 am | #2 |
Octode
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 1,965
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Re: Akai 4000D FF/Play issues
Hard to see in the video but it looks like you may have the tape threaded incorrectly. It looks like the tape is not contacting the tape heads but is threaded around some parts below them.
Also it looks like you haven't threaded the tape around the auto stop arm to the right of the pinch roller. I can see the arm is sitting low because the tape is not holding it up. |
2nd Apr 2019, 11:12 am | #3 |
Triode
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 29
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Re: Akai 4000D FF/Play issues
Sorry, yes, could well be not quite correctly spooled (i filmed very early this morning...), but can assure that spooled correctly (with cover on) the problem is exactly the same.
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2nd Apr 2019, 11:42 am | #4 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ramsbottom (Nr Bury) Lancs or Bexhill (Nr Hastings) Sussex.
Posts: 5,814
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Re: Akai 4000D FF/Play issues
The squealing noise suggests a problem with the clutch mechanism Richard but I can't advise you re that [others will]. Re the auto stop lever Tim, the power switch has ON and SHUT OFF. In the latter position power is off if the tape doesn't hold it up, as you say but when ON is selected the auto stop does not operate. That's one aspect solved anyway! [I had to look at my 4000 to confirm].
Dave Have you come across the problem with crumbling cams on these machines Richard? If not take care when operating the two levers and look it up in the search box at the top of the Forum front page. A classic fault with these otherwise great recorders and difficult to repair! Oh I see you posted re this problem last June. Is it the same machine? Sticky Tape Syndrome was mentioned then. Last edited by dave walsh; 2nd Apr 2019 at 11:54 am. |
2nd Apr 2019, 12:06 pm | #5 |
Triode
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 29
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Re: Akai 4000D FF/Play issues
Thanks Dave. Yes, this is the same problem as last year. I tried to re-open that thread but it's closed unfortunately. The machine has slowly got worse over the past 12 months, and I'm having problems with all tapes now, not just those I know to suffer with Sticky Shed. Luckily I've had access to a refurbed Revox A77 over the past year, but I'm determined to get this Akai up and running properly again! I'll have a search for the crumbling cams issue!
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2nd Apr 2019, 8:58 pm | #6 |
Retired Dormant Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Stoke-on-Trent, Staffordshire, UK.
Posts: 13
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Re: Akai 4000D FF/Play issues
Hi try the motor run capacitors, they may need replacing.
Rob |
2nd Apr 2019, 11:32 pm | #7 | |
Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Wembley, Middlesex
Posts: 7,219
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Re: Akai 4000D FF/Play issues
Quote:
Can you thread the tape correctly then post a video of it in play made. Can you then remove the tape, put it into rewind and then stall the left hand turntable. How easy is it to stall? more importantly which parts stall. can you post a video? With the machine off, switch to rewind, how easily does the RH turntable spin? it should spin very easily. Now try that with FF and see how easily the LH spool spins. Please note there will be resistance in play, because clutches engage to give back tension. FWIW I think the two idlers and possibly the tyre round the supply spool have failed due to old age. |
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3rd Apr 2019, 1:59 am | #8 |
Octode
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 1,965
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Re: Akai 4000D FF/Play issues
There is a squeal in the third video. Sticky Shed was mentioned. When just one SSS tape has deposited its waxy gunk on the tape path it's important to clean all the gunk off, which may take some time to do properly. Remaining gunk may affect playing of other good tapes. For easy viewing and access, clean with the machine on its back and in a good, strong light. Dont forget the erase head. Dark coloured gunk can be missed on a black coloured erase head.
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3rd Apr 2019, 11:37 am | #9 | |
Triode
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 29
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Re: Akai 4000D FF/Play issues
Quote:
Once in Rewind the spool reel is very easy to stall, it requires little effort. The idler usually continues to run, spinning against the tyre but not making enough contact to make it move. Here's the videos, hopefully capturing what you mentioned? https://youtu.be/1JmOQ1N0IuM https://youtu.be/MI3yFXqBc8s |
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5th Apr 2019, 12:36 am | #10 | |
Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Wembley, Middlesex
Posts: 7,219
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Re: Akai 4000D FF/Play issues
Quote:
The idlers are very worn |
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5th Apr 2019, 2:22 am | #11 |
Octode
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 1,965
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Re: Akai 4000D FF/Play issues
Here is the 4000D tape path when the front cover is installed. The tape runs across a large roller guide. Without them I'm wondering if the tape catches on the edge of the erase head as it's forced around it at a sharp angle.
https://youtu.be/F4TI7Bzt1wM |
5th Apr 2019, 6:05 am | #12 |
Triode
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 29
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Re: Akai 4000D FF/Play issues
It's a little harder to thread with everything dismantled. When the machine is all put together and threaded correctly the problem remains exactly the same.
I will replace the idlers and see if that helps. It also might be worth replacing the rubber ring on the feeder. Does anbody know what size it might be, or where to pick up a suitable replacement? |
5th Apr 2019, 10:51 am | #13 |
Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Wembley, Middlesex
Posts: 7,219
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Re: Akai 4000D FF/Play issues
It looks like the left hand guides are fixed to the top cover.
You'll probably need a new pinch roller. When you stall the spools as in post 10, does the motor stall as well? You'd be best to get the idlers and pinch roller rebuilt, though thats getting into expensive territory. |
5th Apr 2019, 11:05 am | #14 |
Triode
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 29
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Re: Akai 4000D FF/Play issues
No, at no point does the motor stall, it keeps running.
I was looking at getting a new pinch roller, I can pick up the tyre online, is it a (relatively) easy job to replace the tyre myself? I can hopefully pick up some 2nd hand idlers online, but its a bit of a gamble as they could be in no better shape than the current ones! |
5th Apr 2019, 11:11 am | #15 |
Octode
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Watford, Hertfordshire, UK.
Posts: 1,270
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Re: Akai 4000D FF/Play issues
Certainly looks like idlers as the motor continues to turn. I have a 4000DS which plays/records fine until the supply reel is almost run out. The machine then starts to slow and so do all the idlers etc. including the motor. So I think it is probably poor motor torque and I may have to try replacing the motor capacitor? I do have a 4000D which you can have if you want it. It worked great but has not been used for a while as a Teac has taken over tape duties in that respect. The 4000D had a new capstan roller fitted built by Terry's in the USA, had great fun with it and the infamous cam was in good condition last time I looked. Not sure where you are, I am in Watford, Herts.
Wow just seen your location, Cornwall a bit too far in my little Smart car Possible meet half way?
__________________
Whether the Top Cap is Grid or Anode - touching it will give you a buzz either way! Last edited by Top Cap; 5th Apr 2019 at 11:16 am. |
5th Apr 2019, 11:51 am | #16 |
Triode
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 29
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Re: Akai 4000D FF/Play issues
I will drop you a PM!
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5th Apr 2019, 3:12 pm | #17 | ||
Octode
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 1,965
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Re: Akai 4000D FF/Play issues
Quote:
Quote:
With no capstan shaft collar fitted, it's more likely there will be tape slip at the capstan. Not only because there's less surface area to transmit the drive to the tape but also because in this state there is less pressure from the pinch roller as its spring isn't as tensioned. |
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