Wien 8TD3 8 Track Player

[DMcMahon]

Yesterday collected my Wien 8TD3 8 Track Tape Player order, this is a cloned/rebadged BSR T145/MR2. My first hands on experience of a home (rather than in car) 8 track player. Even though very early days, already have the 8 track bug and have ordered a Panasonic RS-806US 8 track player/recorder.

The Wien is only a budget unit but seems to get quite good reviews.

No tapes yet so opened it up for inspection. As half expected the drive belt has disintegrated into a very sticky gooey mess which will take some cleaning up. Some where I have a spare flat belt from one of my Akai's that may well fit.

Looks in reasonable condition, the silvering has come off the Selector switch.

The case is just thin hardboard with a very thin imitation wood veneer.

The PCB is marked as Low Gain, I guess this for the DIN output, the DIN connector is quite rusty and I plan to change to Phono. Will initially convert 1 channel to Phono and compare the Phono and DIN outputs (when I get it running).

Last year there was a Thread which referenced (from the manual) resistors R2 & R9 values for Low and High gain. I see some of the Wien/BSR players have DIN (so presumably low gain) and some have Phono (so presumably high gain).

Mains cable is 2 core, I will convert to 3 core so as to connect an earth connection.

[DMcMahon]

Many thanks to Focus Diode (Brian) for supplying a copy of the BSR manual, will be very useful.

David

[Focus Diode]

You're welcome.
Interesting it's a 2-core lead version. This will be double insulated with no Earth connection required.

I have two versions, an unbranded "High Gain" with the two core isolated lead and a standard Wien with a 3-cored lead.

It would be a good idea to replace the DIN with phono plugs. My first model actually had them as standard.

[DMcMahon]

I will probably still earth it, as I am a bit of a fanatic with earthing, also gives me some peace of mind when do live working inside.

Spent ages cleaning off the old drive belt, some of it was really stubborn on the flywheel real hard and of course when softened, the mess it goes everywhere. IPA and Mentholated Spirits struggled, White Spirit and Lighter Fuel were slightly better, best was Cellulose Thinners but still not easy. A shame that the days that I could easily get access to Acetone are long gone.

I removed the motor pulley to better clean it and tried to remove the flywheel but could not. Removed the front panel pieces to more easily clean the Playback Head and capstan shaft. Head was not bad, although does have some speckled marks (rust ?) that are not keen to come off with normal cleaning, the capstan shaft was quite bad with graphite backing from the tape.

[DMcMahon]

Reading through the BSR manual there are 4 variants of the preamplifier PCB with 6 configurations. A quick read I found it a little unclear so have summarised it in my own words.

Board 1, Configuration 1 - 3 stage, high output only (750mV)

Board 2, Configuration 2 - 2 stage, low output (125mV)

Board 2, Configuration 3 - 2 stage, high output (750mV) with R2 & R9 changed to 22 Ohms

Board 3, Configuration 4 - 2 stage, high output (750mV) with left output connected to top end of voltage divider R8-R9 and right output connected to top end of voltage divider R17-R16

Board 3, Configuration 5 - 2 stage, low output (125mV) with left output connected to mid point of R8-R9 and right output connected to mid point R17-R16

Board 4, Configuration 6 - 2 stage, low output only (125mV)

[DMcMahon]

Not 100% conclusive yet but from a quick look I think I have board 2 so should be an easy change of resistors R2 & R9 (120 Ohms) to 22 Ohms (or similar) for conversion to high output when converting the DIN output cable to Phono.

[Focus Diode]

Originally Posted by DMcMahon

I will probably still earth it, as I am a bit of a fanatic with earthing, also gives me some peace of mind when do live working inside.

Of course, if you decide to replace the mains lead with a colour coded one you wouldn't be able to maintain the same isolation, so a three corded cable would be required.

Of course, twin flex like what your player has would be considered unsatisfactory on a modern appliance which should have an additional outer sheath.

The "tar" is a pain to get off. It's looking great so far.

[DMcMahon]

Mains cable upgraded to 3 core and DIN cable replaced by Phono cable. Have replaced left channel gain resistor R2 (120 Ohms) with 15 Ohms , which was the nearest value I have to 22 Ohms. When it is working will do a comparison of the left and right channels with the 2 different gain resistors.

Co-incidentally I found a schematic for the BSR T145/MR3 which looks like it is a board 2 configuration 3 high gain preamp board but its gain resistors R2 & R9 are 15 Ohms.

Powered up all OK and motor runs, have not yet found a drive belt. AC voltages at motor /transformer are good, still to measure the DC voltages.

Track changing is not working, stuck on track 4. The track change solenoid is working when the manual track selector button is pushed but the cam assembly is not rotating, partly I think as it is gummed up with old sticky grease so will give it a good clean and re-lube. But also there is a little spring attached to the actuating pawl where the outer end of the spring is not hooked onto anything, it is not immediately obvious where the spring should connect to.

[Focus Diode]

From a glance at your photos it looks as if the spring might link onto the "anchor" at the point circled?

[DMcMahon]

Thank you, well spotted, I will check that out.

David

[DMcMahon]

Forgot to mention that the actual value of gain resistors R2 & R9 both by measurement and colour codes was 82 Ohms, not 120 as listed.

[DMcMahon]

Originally Posted by Focus Diode

From a glance at your photos it looks as if the spring might link onto the "anchor" at the point circled?

Turned out that was not an anchor point, it was a tiny rectangular cut-out where a piece underneath located into it. The solenoid body sits on top of it and impossible to fit the spring hook into it.

I fitted the spring in the only practical place possible, a hole in the floor metalwork and now (after cleaning/re-greasing) track selection is working very well, so I think that is where it belongs.

Found my spare Akai flat belt and luckily it fits the flywheel and motor pulley really well.

Checked out the main supply voltages:-
15V AC from transformer = 16V
7.5V AC from transformer = 8V
+20C DC = +21.4V (drops to 1V when solenoid energises)
+16V DC = +16.9V


On Saturday my first 8 track tape order arrived, The Beatles - Sgt Peppers, it plays fine although would not say Hi-Fi but not bad sound at all. The left channel (with 15 Ohm R2 gain resistor), is as expected noticeably louder than the right channel with original 82 Ohm so will replace R9 with 15 Ohm later.

I can see the foam in the tape cartridge is falling apart so will open up the cartridge to repair later.

David

[Focus Diode]

Fantastic result! As for the tapes the internal pressure pads will be perished. Thankfully they can be replaced. One US firm I purchased from also had the adhesive foil strips that activates the track change solenoid.
I also have Sgt Pepper on 8-track. The sound quality is very good.

[Martin Bush]

If you are replacing the foam replace the foil splice while you are there too (and clean the roller). That said, if the splice does fail all that happens is the tape goes inside the cart and it's an easy fix. I have had this happen on two carts which I was playing just to get to the splice.

You also said that the sound wasn't "hifi". When you have replaced the foam just try gently moving the cart in the slot as it plays. I have a couple that are transformed when you get the cart sat just right in the player. I don't know if it's a particular cart design, foam pad alignment but some sit just right and play excellently and some (one of my Beatles ones) just need a touch of manipulation.

[DMcMahon]

Thank you Martin, yes I did notice cartridge placement could have a noticeable effect.

Have a set of splices and foam pressure pads, will replace the splice even it it looks OK.

David

[Martin Bush]

Having bought a splicing block I actually found the best way to hold everything in place while applying the new splice was a post it note...

[DMcMahon]

Do you re-enforce the splice by putting normal splicing tape on the rear of the tape ?

David

[Martin Bush]

On some I have but I am not sure about how thick and flexible that will ultimately make the tape at that point and whether it could possibly cause a problem with tape wear.

At the moment I try to get as good a stick as I can using just the foil. I try to remove any lubrication from that area first too.

I understand the reason for reinforcing the splice and I have done it on some tapes, but I've also found that a failed splice only results in the tape disappearing inside the cart so it's not too big a job to sort.

I have had some foil from a kind forum member and also bought some from ebay and have used both. I'm not sure what the ebay stuff is made out of (could be proper splice tape or something else repurposed) but it does seem a bit thicker. It does stick and operate the track change though.

[Focus Diode]

I've had some 8-track horrors when opening the case to replace the foam pressure pad.
Now, The Beatles' White Album' utilises almost the entire spool due to its length. Much of the tape spooled out onto the floor!

Attempting to rectify this disaster eventually led me being forced to cut the tape to untangle the mess on the floor. Eventually I succeeded and was able to splice together the part of the tape I was forced to cut. Fortunately, it was a complete success with the splice being barely audible over the four tracks.

[DMcMahon]

I have read quite a lot and seen a few video clips of these 8 track tape disasters, I hope I do not experience this

David