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Vintage Amateur and Military Radio Amateur/military receivers and transmitters, morse, and any other related vintage comms equipment.

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Old 9th May 2016, 12:07 pm   #21
M0FYA Andy
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Default Re: 1154/1155 pair

If the deal includes all the peripherals, even in a 'complete but not working' condition, then I would suggest it is a very good price. The DF loop and the Plugboard 192 in particular aren't at all easy to find, and can easily fetch a couple of hundred pounds each.
It's all down to what is included. The Tx and Rx are the easy bits to find!
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Old 9th May 2016, 2:14 pm   #22
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Default Re: 1154/1155 pair

I dont think the DF loop are there. As for the J switch, probably no because I recall seeing a homebrew switch box, but I cant be sure now. When I was there it was working and I used it but of course now, after being stood in a damp shed for two years AND having the big switch thrown ON whilst damp which caused the PA valves to give up the ghost with a few crackles and pops I gather, who knows what is wrong. From what people have said, it is likely that NOTHING else is wrong, or thats what I am told, but who knows?

I recall bringing an old FT101 back from the dead - 30 years in a loft somewhere - long weekend with the variac, then a few weeks replacing resistors etc etc but fundamentally nothing had failed beyond easy repair...just a matter of finding what wasnt right with a voltage and resistance chart. But I only paid forty quid for that!

D
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Old 9th May 2016, 2:50 pm   #23
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Default Re: 1154/1155 pair

David,
I did manage to destroy a PT15 in mine once by foolishly applying too many volts so maybe there was a power supply problem. If you don't exceed 1200V they seem to be fine. If you do go ahead please feel free to ask any questions. I know of at least ten 1154s that are currently operational in the hands of VMARS members so there's a wealth of knowledge out there.
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Old 9th May 2016, 2:55 pm   #24
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Default Re: 1154/1155 pair

I'm not sure I'd want to buy a T1154/R1155 from someone who, knowing their value and heritage, stores them in a damp shed for two years and then, to make things worse, just turns them on without making any checks.

I wouldn't leave a £10 woodie in a damp place, yet alone a T1154. Probably the most valuable set I have is a B2 Spyset. I'd be mad to leave it in a damp place for two years and then expect someone to buy it at a top whack price.
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Old 9th May 2016, 4:06 pm   #25
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Default Re: 1154/1155 pair

I have emailed the original restorer about the ancillary equipment and he says this:

"Everything else [ apart from morse key which is original] is emulated with various bits and pieces. For example the mic amp (equiv of intercom amp) is a solid state amp in a plastic box (powered from the tx 6VDC LT line). I included a domestic Phillips mike.

No J-switch, ant current meter or DF loop. Leads use correct orig plugs but are themselves not original. No orig mic or headset. R1155 has an amp in the emulated mains PSU box to give L/S volume.

Basically, the rx and tx are as pretty much as original, but most peripherals are emulated (or absent).

Like so many, the rx DF ccts are missing. I used the spare holes in front panel to house little extras such as a variable pitch control for the BFO (useful for resolving LSB and USB) and a muting switch. So looks original.

Tx is totally orig except for a fully reversible mod which enables VFO to cover the HF end of 160m."

So thats what we have

D
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Old 9th May 2016, 4:34 pm   #26
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Default Re: 1154/1155 pair

David, then way, way, too expensive at that price, IMHO!
Rx with missing DF circuitry? Not worth more than £80.
The Rx and Tx are not at all rare, look out for other examples would be my advice.
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Old 9th May 2016, 4:39 pm   #27
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Default Re: 1154/1155 pair

thanks andy
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Old 10th May 2016, 9:54 am   #28
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Default Re: 1154/1155 pair

David,

and I would add to what Andy has said regarding value of the equipment. The T1154 is made in such a way that it doesn't generally suffer from old age. Many R1155s are quite the reverse. The rubber wiring problem many of them contain is terminal - at least if you want an authentically original set that still works.

If a R1155 has rubber insulated wiring in it (and not all do), I would regard it as a "basket case" regardless of its claimed operational state. That rubber wiring will perish, if it hasn't already. And perished rubber wiring is a sort of time-bomb just waiting to go off. You disturb it in the slightest way, and the hardened rubber falls off in lumps leaving you with bare wires. Which of course is catastrophic for a set that is supposed to work.

Bear in mind that an original set with no components changed might still work - in the sense that "it makes a noise". It will be unlikely to work to specification however. Parts will have to be changed. And once you start on that you will disturb that rubber wiring.

The only cure for such a set is to completely re-wire it from top to bottom. And that is not a fun game on something as fiddly and intricate as an R1155. How that would affect its value is really for the buyer to decide. My own view is that anything needing weeks of work to get it working properly is of very small value - I would say Andy's £80 to be on the generous side...

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Old 10th May 2016, 10:13 am   #29
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Default Re: 1154/1155 pair

Thanks Richard.

I shall have a good look when I go over to see it. I have already spoken to the vendor explaining what I feel are the wishefullnesses and realities of this situation and he does seem to both understand and be willing to negotiate.

I am starting to get a feel for the value: a none working pair (but that WAS working a short while ago and thus has all the ancillaries to enable full functioning) might be worth perhaps £850 - 900, but a working set (assuming it does once I have it home etc etc) might be worth £1000. Given that it's the unknown situation that is causing concern, and thus the potential loss of money in the flick of a switch, I think theres room to manoeuvre.

I'd like the radios clearly, and I'd like them to be saved and restored and used because of what they are...so Im happy to keep going.

David
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Old 10th May 2016, 11:21 am   #30
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Default Re: 1154/1155 pair

David, those price ranges you give in your last post are 'top dollar' values for unmodified equipment with no genuine peripheral parts. Home-built power supplies and solid-state mic amplifiers aren't going to be worth much unless beautifully made to professional standards. 'Bath-tub' keys seem to go for £40 to £50.
But modifications bring the values down drastically. Richard might be right, my suggested £80 for an R1155 with the DF parts stripped-out is probably optimistic.

What a careful restoration to make a receiver fully functional does to its value I'm not really sure. I do feel that a restoration blatantly using modern components to replace faulty originals, with no effort to hide the repairs, would significantly reduce the value.

Andy
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Old 10th May 2016, 11:43 am   #31
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Default Re: 1154/1155 pair

I have to agree with the other posters, £1300 is way, way too much for what sounds like pretty average kit. Only if the original ancillaries were present would it command a premium. There seems to be a grossly inflated idea of the value of ex-military kit, when seen at rallies at high prices the sets are invariably still for sale at the end of the day. Love it or hate it eBay does at least provide a good idea of what people are prepared to pay, make sure you check completed sales though. Because this is a relatively small market I would suggest having a good look round, may be worth checking local radio clubs, many older amateurs will have a R1155 kicking around or know someone who has.
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Old 10th May 2016, 11:49 am   #32
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Default Re: 1154/1155 pair

Well I was recently offered a working pristine (and I mean pristine...straight out of Quarter Masters cupboard) R1155 for 100 quid and was sold one three years ago for 80. I sold that on as a none worker.

There was recently an 1154 for 850 on ebay.

I was basing my assessment on 100 for the working Rx, 800 for the Tx and something for the ancillaries. They might not be original or beautiful but they allow the system to work.

I'll have a search

D
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Old 10th May 2016, 11:58 am   #33
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Default Re: 1154/1155 pair

David,

I have a friend who's not in the best of health at the moment who has quite a bit of this stuff and does want to begin moving it on. If you're not in too much of a hurry I could put the two of you together. He's in Stourport on Severn.

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Old 10th May 2016, 12:44 pm   #34
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Default Re: 1154/1155 pair

Statements about the price of a T1154 (unqualified) are highly misleading.

Prices vary considerably according to which model it is.
You have to keep in mind that these are not rare things in general, especially R1155 of course. I have kept notes on eBay values over the years and can say that the common versions of T1154 (e.g the M model is quite common) average £350-£400 with original-looking R1155 coming in £100-£150.

Rare versions can double the price and manky ones can halve it (or worse).

So I would say that the high prices you sometimes see are usually for rare models or just because it's in an auction and that's what happens sometimes.
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Old 10th May 2016, 12:55 pm   #35
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Default Re: 1154/1155 pair

Thats interesting. Thank you.

D
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Old 10th May 2016, 1:04 pm   #36
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Default Re: 1154/1155 pair

Quote:
Originally Posted by M0FYA Andy View Post
What a careful restoration to make a receiver fully functional does to its value I'm not really sure. I do feel that a restoration blatantly using modern components to replace faulty originals, with no effort to hide the repairs, would significantly reduce the value
I guess it all depends on whether you just want to look at it, or to actually use it. I'm firmly in the latter category and so would value a radio with "period" usability/reliability modifications somewhat more than an untouched, original, as-it-came-from-the-factory version.

(as we say in the classic-car world "Drive it don't polish it").

Front-panel-adjustable BFO control, voltage-regulated HT for the LO and BFO, possibly a product-detector - they'd all make an 1155 more-usable (and to me more valuable) in these days of ubiquitous SSB. Others would undoubtedly see this approach as pure heresy.
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Old 10th May 2016, 1:09 pm   #37
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Default Re: 1154/1155 pair

Well for me Im probably half way between. I'd like to enjoy the period experience - so the slightly unstable chirpy CW note of the 1154 I find pleasant and desirable. On the other hand, I did for a while have a 19 set but that is beyond use IMHO. The 40m band is covered in the merest whiff of a turn of the dial and everything can be heard at once...who needs SDR?!

D
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Old 10th May 2016, 1:09 pm   #38
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Default Re: 1154/1155 pair

Quote:
Originally Posted by G4XWDJim View Post
I have a friend who's not in the best of health at the moment who has quite a bit of this stuff and does want to begin moving it on.
PM sent Jim
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Old 10th May 2016, 1:36 pm   #39
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Default Re: 1154/1155 pair

R1155s and 19 sets were almost at the bottom of the food chain. They were cheap and available, and if you wanted to get going on pocket money, they were what was within reach. Modification was almost inevitable as they had some necessary things missing.

That was then.

But this is now. The demand for these things is historical. They aren't wanted to be competitive amateur radio stations. They either sit in museums/collections, or they get used on vintage nets where their original capabilities are part of the thing. Originality and completeness is seen as very important. I don't think they go DF'ing and they certainly don't go on 1000 bomber raids any longer, but people want and pay a lot for ancillaries they won't actually use.

I suppose that if you want a radio and a power supply and a speaker amplifier in one box, why not start with an AR88 or a CR100. Period nostalgia and a need for originality restores all the period limitations.

But then an 1155 with the DF ripped out and a 19 set sans set 'B' are also relics of an important era that came after the war. They showed people being creative.

You takes yer choice, and you have to pay the market price, I suppose.

David
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Old 10th May 2016, 3:55 pm   #40
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Default Re: 1154/1155 pair

David,

I think you now have a pretty good idea of market value of this particular system - and what would affect a realistic price. At the end of day, only you can decide what you think its "worth" is to you. As Andy has said, the Tx and Rx aren't the rare items here - you can always pick up another one if the seller is unwilling to sell at the price you are willing to pay.

I have further questions on this system concerning the "blown" transmitter PA valves. There are (at least) two ways to blow valves. One is to over voltage the heaters so they literally burn out and go open circuit. Another is to put so much HT on them that they flash over or they take so much HT current that the anodes over-dissipate. I am sure there are other failure modes concerning the grids which others might have experience of, or comment on. What I do wonder though is why this occurred? It suggests a serious failure in the power unit, which you say is "home brew".

The obvious failure mode in a power unit is in the series regulator of the LT heater supply. In any authentic set up (i.e. one which does not involve modifying the equipment) the LT supply has to be DC - because the main Tx/Rx changeover relay in the T1154 is fed off this supply. It takes something like 3 to 4 amps, and its a huge brute.

The danger with any modern power supply system is that the DC regulator is not properly designed. Its quite a challenge to produce around 7V DC at anything up to 13 amps. And it needs to have safety cut-outs built-in because if a series regulator transistor(s) fails, it will probably go short circuit and thus put the full DC output of the rectifier straight on to the valve heaters. And you will probably then find you have blown quite a few heaters. With PT15s at £65 each (or more) this is not a risk you really want to take. The cost of an over-voltage cut-out system in a power unit will be peanuts compared to the cost of even one blown PT15.

The quality of home brew power unit designs varies enormously. Chances are that unless the designer was a professional experienced in this area, an existing design will be cobbled together. Even if the design is good, some minor failure in the construction - such as failing to get really good thermal contact between the series regulator devices and the heatsink - can easily lead to unexpected failure.

What I am saying is that the seller hasn't dared to switch on the system again, having spent reportedly another £250 on two new PT15s. Wise man. I wouldn't switch it on either, without some very thorough analysis of the power unit. If you buy this system, this is something you will need to tackle yourself.

If you have the schematic and photos of the power unit, you could post them on here, and I am sure you will get some intelligent comment on its suitability for the job.

Richard
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