|
Success Stories If you have successfully repaired or restored a piece of equipment, why not write up what you did and post details here. Particularly if it was interesting, unusual or challenging. PLEASE DO NOT POST REQUESTS FOR HELP HERE! |
|
Thread Tools |
8th Sep 2010, 8:39 pm | #1 |
Nonode
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Godalming, Surrey, UK.
Posts: 2,593
|
1960 Vauxhall (and Ford) 3 valve MW/LW 12v car radio
Hello again,
I have a couple of old non-working Vauxhall car radios here to restore, one valve and one transistor, owned by Paul known on the forum as zagatoman. I've never undertaken a car valve radio repair before so this was going to be a bit of challenge. Firstly I started looking for at least a circuit diagram for it but Google found none, but I did find suggestions that these old Vauxhall car radios were built by PYE or Ekco. I looked through all the PYE and Ekco car radio service manuals on Paul Stennings DVD and none matched it so I phoned a professional car radio repairer to see if I could buy a circuit diagram for it but he apparently didn't keep any and he too suggested that it would be a contemporary PYE or Ekco. I eventually discovered that the transistor set was built by Plessey as I found the diagram for it listed under Plessey as a 'Vauxhall manual car radio' on Paul Stennings DVD and I daresay this earlier valve set was too. I then searched RMOrg using the three valves (ECH81, EBF89, ECL82) as search criteria and a GB built Ford car radio was found, which was fitted to the Consul, Zephyr, Zodiac and Anglia etc. models from 1959. Its R&TVS service manual is available on Paul Stennings DVD, or online here .... http://www.service-data.com/product.php/2245/2958 The Ford radio circuit diagram matches this Vauxhall valve car radio almost exactly. Both cover the MW waveband and one preset station on LW. The case on the set is a bit rusty but that doesn't matter as only the dial and knobs are visible once the set is mounted in a 1960s Vauxhall dashboard and covered by a chrome-plated escutcheon. The set is straightforward to dismantle, the top cover lifts off after removal of 11 self-tapping screws. The 12 volt positive earth power supply unit is built at the rear of the chassis and is comprised of a Plessey type 1214 non-synchronous vibrator, step up transformer, and a Westalite contact-cooled selenium rectifier. The 3 capacitors in the unit looked well passed it and there was evidence of serious overheating in the transformer as much of its wax had melted and collected on the chassis underneath it. The tuner assembly is mounted behind the front of the chassis, all valves were still present and no Hunts or wax capacitors to replace there as all but a couple of Plessey electrolytics are ceramics. The tuning pointer was missing and the cord had broken and been tied back together again. The permeability tuner mechanism was operating OK when the tuning knob was turned. All the wax under the transformer was scraped off the chassis (see pic below) and the valve pins cleaned with a soft copper brush, and then the valve sockets and volume potentiometer cleaned with Servisol 10 switch cleaner. As I don't have a suitable 12 volt power supply and a current limiter I took the set with a set of capacitors over to Ron Bryan for its initial start up. For this set the following new capacitors were required - 0.22uf 630v polypropylene axial (Vishay) 0.047uf 1500v polypropylene axial (LCR) 3 x 25uf 25v electrolytic axials (Sprague USA) - (3 x 22uf 25v axials will do) Before powering up, the capacitors in the power unit were replaced, a Plesseyseal 0.22uf , a wax 0.05uf (using the 0.047uf 1.5kv) and one 25uf electrolytic. An aerial and 3 ohm loudspeaker were attached and the set powered up and remarkably it started to work, its dial bulb lit up and its vibrator buzzed away. It wasn't picking up very much though, its step-up transformer rapidly got very hot and the HT at the rectifier only measured around 80 volts DC yet it was consuming 3.6 amps, it should use no more than 2.4 amps. A faulty rectifier was thought the most likely cause of its low HT and excessive power consumption so it was taken out of circuit and a temporary replacement was rigged up using four silicon diodes soldered together, the set was powered up again and the HT then measured 170 volts, the transformer was no longer getting hot and the power consumption was down to 2.1 amps, and it was working better. I brought the set home to repair the rectifier which comes off the chassis after removal of two small nuts, and its outer aluminium case slides off after its top overlapping edges are levered upwards using a wide chisel. The paxolin lid then lifts off revealing 8 small springs, under which are four metal contact pieces each with a solder tag at one end, and under those eight piles of selenium discs set in holes in a perspex moulding. The rectifier was then totally dismantled, a pic of all its bits is below. After taking the pic the discs were quickly taken outside cos they smelled awful ! The perspex moulding and four upper metal pieces were then scrubbed with white spirit and I then set about fitting four new 1N4007 silicon diodes into the original case, arranged as in the diagram below. I drilled small holes in the middle of the round discs which form the four upper metal contact pieces, placed them in the perspex moulding, turned it over, bent the diode wires and pushed them into the holes, turned the moulding back over, soldered the wires in place and trimmed off the excess. The paxolin lid and small piece of insulating film were placed over and under the perspex moulding and the outer casing slid back over, and that was tapped back tightly over the moulding using a rubber hammer and a piece of wood. The rectifier was then checked by attaching a meter to its + and - tags, a voltage of +7.6 volts was read on the meter when a 9 volt battery was connected either way to its two ~ tags. It was then fitted back onto the chassis and the wiring reconnected to it. The two remaining 25uf electrolytic capacitors were replaced, and a fuse connector with a 5 amp fuse attached to the power cable and the missing dial pointer was then sorted out. The dial cord had been rendered too short after its broken ends had been tied together as it wouldn't fit over both its pulleys, and it had no spring, so I undid the knot and tied a short spring onto the cord ends, refitted the cord and made up a new pointer using a paper clip. The permeability tuner mechanism was a little tarnished and stiff so I carefully rubbed a little grease onto its moving parts with a cotton bud. At the bottom of the unit is a waveband switch which operates automatically as the tuner reaches the end of the MW band and that was cleaned with Servisol 10. I took it back to Ron to power it up again after its surgery and it was working fine with 175 volts of HT at the rectifier. It still wasn't picking up much and there was some interference evident although the lid was off and at the time we didn't have a car aerial with a screened cable. The IF frequency was checked and was found to be spot on. The dial bulb had stopped working, so the holder was taken out, cleaned and replaced and then the valve voltages and critical resistors were checked. The resistors had gone up a little as expected but none seriously so but the valve voltages weren't as listed in the manual so three known good valves were fitted and the set then worked considerably better. Later a car aerial was plugged in, the aerial trimmer adjusted to suit and the case lid replaced and the set then worked well and without interference. MW RF alignment was found to be OK and Radio 4 on LW came on loud and clear. The next day I took the 3 original valves down to Phil Taylor to test and the ECH81 and EBF89 were indeed worn out so I acquired 2 new ones from him for £8 and fitted those, and the set now works very well. A final check indicated that all valves were operating at the correct voltages. It made a change restoring a valve car radio which is to be fitted as original equipment into an early Vauxhall Victor. The total cost of the repair came to under £20. Its vibrator is noisy as it always has been but maybe in the future a new replacement solid state vibrator could be acquired which plugs straight in and works silently. These are available here for £25 + P&P ..... http://www.radios.freeserve.co.uk/ I hope this article which I've done in a bit more detail than usual will inspire a few classic car owners with a soldering iron and a cheap digital meter to attempt repair of their 1959-1961 Vauxhall or Ford valve car radios. My thanks to Ron for his help fixing this radio. Howard Last edited by howard; 8th Sep 2010 at 8:48 pm. |
8th Sep 2010, 8:49 pm | #2 |
Octode
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Near Stowmarket, Suffolk, UK.
Posts: 1,962
|
Re: 1960 Vauxhall (and Ford) 3 valve MW/LW 12v car radio
Good stuff Howard
I've got two car radios awaiting restoration here, one from a MK1 or MK2 Escort with suspected AF117 failure and an AC Delco 8 track & radio from a Cadillac which will eventually go in the Marina (which currently has a Motorola 8 track). The Delco works but only just, I daresay it's due to many leaky electrolytics. I certainly take my hat off to you, when I've looked inside mine I've just quickly put them back together again as quickly as possible! Josh. |
8th Sep 2010, 8:55 pm | #3 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Lynton, N. Devon, UK.
Posts: 7,060
|
Re: 1960 Vauxhall (and Ford) 3 valve MW/LW 12v car radio
Congratulations - radio saved!
I'd expect this radio to be not particularly sensitive, the valve line-up gives the same number of stages as a conventional 4+1 valve domestic superhet, whereas in a car radio installation, with its comparatively small aerial, an RF amplifier stage was often added. What do others think? The date of this is just before the last-generation valve hybrid sets, with a tr*ns*st*r in the output stage, and 12V HT valves. Hang onto it! |
8th Sep 2010, 9:17 pm | #4 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Warnham, West Sussex. 10 miles south of DORKING.
Posts: 9,145
|
Re: 1960 Vauxhall (and Ford) 3 valve MW/LW 12v car radio
Hello Howard,
In 1967 I owned a Ford Zodiac MK2 convertible 1960 model. The car radio fitted is exactly the same as yours. It worked when I bought the car but it could not be switched off! The fault was the volume control on/off switch, a special part [long threaded shank if I remember] that I obtained from the Ford service dept ENFO. [Engineering division of the Ford Motor Co.] The radio worked very well and was still working when I sold the car a couple of years later. I was 20 years old at the time and wish I had the car now. Ford heritage inform me that no example of this model exists but there must be one somewhere. Very few cars parked in South London roads in those days! [August 1968] Regards, John. |
8th Sep 2010, 9:46 pm | #5 |
Rest in Peace
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dartford, Kent, UK.
Posts: 1,661
|
Re: 1960 Vauxhall (and Ford) 3 valve MW/LW 12v car radio
Nice job Howard! I used to fix loads of these sets for MK2 Ford owners, The Ford part number for them was 204E-18835-E and they are covered in minute detail with circuits and alignment instructions in the big Ford workshop manual for the cars. I thought they were a bit cheap and nasty compared to the earlier Ekco models but worked surprisingly well.......
Regards, Mick. |
8th Sep 2010, 10:05 pm | #6 | |
Nonode
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Godalming, Surrey, UK.
Posts: 2,593
|
Re: 1960 Vauxhall (and Ford) 3 valve MW/LW 12v car radio
Quote:
and Ron as usual did the problem diagnoses. Unfortunately the Vauxhall transistor set is a mess, so bad that we're not sure whether it's repairable yet, it needs a new transformer (wires ripped off), a tuning coil (wires ripped off), AF117 transistors to be replaced ... yours should be straightforward ... Howard |
|
8th Sep 2010, 10:16 pm | #7 | |
Nonode
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Godalming, Surrey, UK.
Posts: 2,593
|
Re: 1960 Vauxhall (and Ford) 3 valve MW/LW 12v car radio
Quote:
The main difference between this set and the contemporary PYE and Ekco car radios is that they had a power transistor in the output stage. German built sets at this time were also hybrids. I remember one of these radios fitted to my father's 1961 Vauxhall Cresta and that worked well. We'll no doubt hear how well this one works once fitted into the Vauxhall Victor. These original valve car radios I gather are few and far between now. Howard |
|
8th Sep 2010, 10:22 pm | #8 | |
Nonode
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Godalming, Surrey, UK.
Posts: 2,593
|
Re: 1960 Vauxhall (and Ford) 3 valve MW/LW 12v car radio
Quote:
Howard |
|
8th Sep 2010, 11:07 pm | #9 |
Heptode
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Birmingham, West Midlands, UK.
Posts: 708
|
Re: 1960 Vauxhall (and Ford) 3 valve MW/LW 12v car radio
I vaguely remember in an old Vauxhall with a Pye radio a small steel box that was attached by a five core? (not sure now) cable to these radios, this was bolted to the centre floor near the heater and on the opposite side of the box had the output plug to the speaker.
In the centre of the box was a transistor heatsink poking through,which complimented the interior decor. Can anybody tell me what part this played in the radio? |
9th Sep 2010, 12:31 am | #10 |
Rest in Peace
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Burton upon Trent, East Staffordshire, UK.
Posts: 1,686
|
Re: 1960 Vauxhall (and Ford) 3 valve MW/LW 12v car radio
Howard,
A splendid job I've got two Pyes and two Ekcos in the queue so this is very valuable. Alan |
9th Sep 2010, 12:53 pm | #11 |
Octode
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Littlehampton, West Sussex, UK.
Posts: 1,465
|
Re: 1960 Vauxhall (and Ford) 3 valve MW/LW 12v car radio
Nice job Howard.
I've got two valve car radios that have curved fronts and are shaped to fit behind a Vauxhall Velox dashboard. One of them I started to restore about 25 years ago having all the metalwork re-plated but put it on one side for what's turned out to be a lengthy couple of weeks. Will I ever get back to them? Jim |
9th Sep 2010, 1:34 pm | #12 |
Nonode
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Godalming, Surrey, UK.
Posts: 2,593
|
Re: 1960 Vauxhall (and Ford) 3 valve MW/LW 12v car radio
This was probably a PYE "Two in one" model 2010 car/portable radio. It had a separate box containing a 3 watt amplifier when used in a car, the receiver could also be removed from its cradle and then used as a portable, as it had its own small built in amp.
There are loads of 1960s car radios on this webpage including ones with separate amplifier boxes. http://etypeuk.com/forum/viewtopic.p...9ec29cfdb57783 Howard |
9th Sep 2010, 1:51 pm | #13 |
Heptode
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Birmingham, West Midlands, UK.
Posts: 708
|
Re: 1960 Vauxhall (and Ford) 3 valve MW/LW 12v car radio
Thanks Howard for that.
It looked like the box sitting on top of the pink Pye 2000 in your link. It describes it as a seperate tuner/amp - and 3 watts - luxury eh |
18th Oct 2010, 8:08 pm | #14 |
Octode
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Beeston, Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 1,234
|
Re: 1960 Vauxhall (and Ford) 3 valve MW/LW 12v car radio
I Have an MG Midget 1974 Chrome to rubber bumper crossover with wire wheels, and a MG MGB GT 1981, both in need of restoration, no Radios.
Perhaps the forum could set up a classic car section. |
18th Oct 2010, 11:52 pm | #15 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK.
Posts: 16,527
|
Re: 1960 Vauxhall (and Ford) 3 valve MW/LW 12v car radio
There's a representative section of this forum's members over on the popular classics forum doing just that.
And some recent discussion about an interesting old Philips car radio. Back to Ford car radios- in my youth (unfortunately no longer) I had a pair of Ford branded radios. They were about 6" square on the front panel with an internal loudspeaker. LW/MW with nonsynchronous vibrator, OZ4, 12A6, 12Q7GT, 12K7GT, 12K8GT- pretty much an AA5, really. I got one working for a while, but the vibrator(s) were shot and they ended up cannibalised for parts. Chris1850
__________________
....__________ ....|____||__|__\_____ .=.| _---\__|__|_---_|. .........O..Chris....O |
19th Oct 2010, 6:01 am | #16 |
Nonode
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Western Lake District, Cumbria (CA20) - UK
Posts: 2,136
|
Re: 1960 Vauxhall (and Ford) 3 valve MW/LW 12v car radio
There will be no section for Vintage Transport of any form.
There are more than enough forums on cars, trucks, trains and for all I know, roller skates. The one which Chris recommends is excellent. Far better to do what we do well than to try to do everything less well.
__________________
Brian |
19th Oct 2010, 5:50 pm | #17 |
Retired Dormant Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Sutton, Surrey, UK.
Posts: 52
|
Re: 1960 Vauxhall (and Ford) 3 valve MW/LW 12v car radio
Would like to say a big thanks to Howard Craven (the memory man) and Ron Bryan for all their help in getting my radios fixed. I feel it was a bit of a task for the transistor Vauxhall radio to get sorted but I was lucky to have a magician cast is spell on them (thanks Ron).
What a fantastic chap Howard is, very accommodating and nothing is to much trouble, and seems to know everything (the memory man). He has been willing to fix a few of my radios that I have had in my collection for years but could not enjoy fully. Howard is great in detailing all the exploits involved in the repairs on this forum. Paul |
16th Sep 2015, 10:23 am | #18 |
Tetrode
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Ashford, Kent, UK.
Posts: 93
|
Re: 1960 Vauxhall (and Ford) 3 valve MW/LW 12v car radio
Moderator - This is a "help request" based upon the content of this thread. I'm hoping it will reach the originators more easily.
I was pleased to find this old thread as it has recently helped me to restore an old Vauxhall valve car radio. Perhaps the original contributors might be able to assist with one last problem. The only schematic I was able to uncover was the Ford one. This shows a heater chain consisting of ECL82 (0.78A) in series with the parallel combination of the EBF89 (0.3A), ECH81 (0.3A), an 82 ohm resistor and the (correct?) pilot lamp (6/8V, 0.3A). This combination results in about 4V at the lamp! Anyone know what it should be, please? Graham |
21st Sep 2015, 11:35 pm | #19 |
Nonode
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: 1966-1976 Coverack in Cornwall and Helston Cornwall. 1976-present Bristol/Bath area.
Posts: 2,965
|
Re: 1960 Vauxhall (and Ford) 3 valve MW/LW 12v car radio
Nice write up. I have never repaired a valved car radio I started with the early all transistor car radio from Philips, Pye and Motorola with the AF117,s plus AD149 in the output stage. I repaired quite a few for friends and family who owned cars from the late 60's and 70's.
I have always wondered how well these valved car radios worked I would imagine they are quite insensitive even compared to the early all transistorised car radios.
__________________
Simon BVWS member |
22nd Sep 2015, 11:53 am | #20 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 13,951
|
Re: 1960 Vauxhall (and Ford) 3 valve MW/LW 12v car radio
They're surprisingly sensitive - at least as good as a typical equivalent FC/IF/detector/2-stage-audio-amp domestic radio.
Having the aerial tightly-coupled to the front-end tuning coil helps, as does permeability tuning (which can present a more-predictable and optimal L/C ratio across the entire waveband than is possible with simple variable-capacitance tuning). In the 1960s a car-radio powered from a 12V battery, with a 10-foot-long bit of wire in the aerial socket, was popular amongst us schoolkids and students for listening to Luxembourg, Caroline, Jackie, Radio London etc: a car radio with 262KHz IF (which was quite common then, specially if the radio's manufacturer had American heritage like Motorola or Philco) gave significantly better adjacent-channel selectivity than a domestic MW valve radio or similar-era 'trannie' with the usual 450-470KHz IF. In a car the usual performance issue isn't out-and-out sensitivity, it's locally generated interference - both conducted via the power supply (hence the assortment of LF and RF chokes/bypass-capacotirs in the power circuit) and via the antenna lead. |