Mono versus Stereo reel to reel

[Martin Bush]

Hi all

I am looking to get a reel to reel and have, impulsively, bid on one on ebay which I since realise is a mono machine.

I have a couple of stereo tapes and was wondering whether they would play properly on a mono machine. My dad has a Phillips machine which allows you to select tracks 1-3 or 2-4 or parallel. Would this last option play a stereo recording, but in mono?

I have experience of multi-track recording on cassette and computer as well as using stereo reel to reels, but I'm not quite able to get my head round what a mono machine with tracks 1-3 and 2-4 selectable is capable of.

Martin

[paulsherwin]

A domestic stereo recorder is just a 4 track machine which uses both tracks in each direction to hold the left and right channels. A mono 4 track recorder uses each track independently to record mono channels.

A 4 track mono recorder will play either the left or right channels of a stereo recording, but won't usually sum them to mono, though a few did have that facility. It's possible to reconstruct both channels using a mono recorder and a computer, but it's a lot of effort.

[TonyDuell]

The parallel position on the track selector of a Philips tape recorder does indeed give you the sum of the 2 tracks. It will therefore play a stereo tape as mono.

Many Philips mono 4 track tape recorders have a socket marked 'Stereo'. This caries the raw signal from the track 3 head (on later machines, the raw signal from whichever head you have not selected to play through the machine's amplifier) and a 16V or so power supply voltage. Philip sold a pre-amplifier that plugged in there and which gave a line-level audio signal to feed into the pickup sockets of a radio receiver. The idea was to use the machine's amplifier for the left channel and a radio for the right channel. Although the results were hardly hi-fi, they were not as bad as you might think.

[Edward Huggins]

All well and good, but what if the OP has bought an earlier 1/2 track R2R?

[Martin Bush]

Thanks chaps.

I have just been outbid on the reel to reel I had an interest in, so I am going to let that one pass I think (Ferguson 3222).

[DMcMahon]

The Grundig 4 track mono machines will play tracks 1 & 3 or tracks 2 and 4 simultaneously (in parallel) when the track switch is set to D (Dual) so should play a stereo recording as mono.

I think on some similar machines the Grundig (and other machines) track setting of D can equate to Duoplay, although I think Duoplay on some machines is more extensive.

David

[Martin Bush]

Thanks David.

I think I may post a request on here once I have a bit more of an idea what I am after and see what may be up for grabs. I got a bit enthusiastic on ebay!

My needs are quite simple really - I'd like to be able to play and record. I'd not be after a high-end machine, just one that works and sounds decent. I have a couple of nice stereo classical tapes I'd like to be able to play in all their glory.

My dad had his Phillips machine repaired a while back and it's a nice one (mono, but with the parallel facility), but I know those models suffer from age-related problems I'd be hard pressed to fix myself.

[Electronpusher0]

I bought a nice beocord 1200 stereo reel to reel from a forum member, it does not have a built in amplifier or speakers. I had to change the belts but it works well.

They are not the cheapest though.

Peter

[paulsherwin]

One of the Japanese domestic stereo machines from the 70s would probably be your best choice. The low end models are still available quite cheaply, but the higher spec models have become expensive as people want to use them to add 'analogue warmth' (aka distortion) to their digital home studios. Sony and Akai were the leaders in this sectior.

Beware of cheap pro and semipro machines, as they will need lots of expensive maintenance and restoration. They'll be cheap for a reason.

[Martin Bush]

Thanks Paul. Those sound like they would suit my needs. I will keep my eyes open and probably post on the wanted section.

[Ted Kendall]

Having owned both, I'd plump for the Sony 377 over the Akai 4000 series.

[ben]

I heartily recommend the Philips N4504/4520. These are 4 track stereo, 3-speed, 3-head, 3 motor and yet very light - less than 10 kg I'd say. They have logic control and are extremely gentle in tape handling. In comparison, the low-to-mid range Sonys and Akais with their clunky mechanical controls seem extremely inelegant.

My second choice would be any of the stereo Tandbergs. I'm biased (pardon the pun) as I have considerable experience with this brand. They're perhaps not for everyone; the horizontal ones will need some mechanical relubrication or other work, and on the vertical models there can sometimes be logic faults. Get a good 'un though, and you'll not want for any other reel deck.

Well, those are my tops for anyone after a stereo r2r without spending huge money. If you are on a budget there are also quite a few stereo r2rs which tend to be overlooked: Sony TC270, Akai X-165, some Sanyo and Toshiba models. These tend to sell for less than the more well known Sony TC-377/399, Akai 4000 series, etc.

Then there are some stereo UK-made Thorn (Ferguson, Ultra) models which are a step up from the one you were bidding on. I haven't used one (yet!) but I know several members here speak very highly of them.

[Martin Bush]

From a brief look online the Sony looks a bit beyond my pocket at the moment. I cast the net and bide my time I think. I am in no rush.

[Borderer]

If you are looking in the Grundig/Philips/Ferguson league you could consider a Telefunken M200 series. They are not much known in the UK but they do turn up cheaply. I bought an M203 mainly out of curiosity and I am quite impressed with it. It is a stereo recorder with a range of switchable track configurations so it is quite versatile. The sound quality is good and it seems to be well designed and nicely made, though perhaps not as rugged as a Grundig, and it is easy enough to use and work on.

[Ted Kendall]

Good point. The Telefunken domestic decks were quite sophisticated, notably in their use of servo back tension, which Sony had the sense to copy in the 300 series. The fabric take-up/fast wind belt might be hard to find, but they are well thought out machines.

[Martin Bush]

Thanks all for the feedback. If I do get a machine it would get used infrequently. Like many on here I have a range of sources and it's nice to be able to put a cassette, 8 track or whatever on instead of CD or vinyl.

I now have my eye on a Phillips machine that is very similar to the one my Dad has. I know how this one operates and have seen a repair kit for it, which I hope means I will be able to get it going. It may or may not be a good machine, but it does at least evoke some memories for me.

If this bid doesn't come off I think I will turn my attention to the forum and see what may be on offer with a bit more of a pedigree

[ben]

Bear in mind that unless it is stereo, you won't be able to enjoy those tapes properly.

Many 4 track mono recorders have a socket marked 'stereo' or 'free HD' but this is just an unamplified output from the head track not currently in use. You'd then have to mess about making up a preamp to get it to line level, then feeding that to a suitable amplifier along with the other signal from the tape recorder to get stereo.

I'd stick with your plan to bide your time and wait for a cheap stereo unit to appear.

[jamesperrett]

Originally Posted by ben

I heartily recommend the Philips N4504/4520. These are 4 track stereo, 3-speed, 3-head, 3 motor and yet very light - less than 10 kg I'd say. They have logic control and are extremely gentle in tape handling. In comparison, the low-to-mid range Sonys and Akais with their clunky mechanical controls seem extremely inelegant.

I'd echo this recommendation. The N4504 became the N4512 (effectively an N4504 mk2) and there were the slightly larger N4506 and N4515. However, don't go threading them in the way shown in Ben's photo as the tape isn't going around the right tension arm as it should.

[TIMTAPE]

If it's the model I'm thinking of, the Philips N4520 used felt pressure pads, which accellerated head wear. But as mentioned the machine had many other good features.

[ben]

Actually the pressure pad on these philips units can be switched in or out of use (i.e. when backcoated tape is used). It's a handy feature.