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Old 2nd Jan 2015, 4:01 pm   #1
ValvoStef
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Default Selling homebrew equipment

Hi all,

I need to clear out some stuff, homebrew valve headphone amps, which I want to sell on ebay. But, they are not CE mark compliant, valve gear never is unless it is fully enclosed. My amps aren't. Can I legally sell them on ebay, knowing that high voltages are only harnessed by a fragile glass envelope? I could pull the valves out and send them seperately and sell the amp as a kit but this would then be classified as non working equipment and the price will drop drastically.
Anyone any experiences with this? Thanks, any advice is appreciated.
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Old 2nd Jan 2015, 4:31 pm   #2
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Default Re: Selling homebrew equipment

Sold for 'parts only' as a get out?
 
Old 2nd Jan 2015, 4:48 pm   #3
ThePillenwerfer
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Default Re: Selling homebrew equipment

As far as I'm aware the rules are a lot more relaxed with sales between private individuals than if you were selling as a trader. Anything I list I say it hasn't had a formal safety test and may not meet modern standards and that the Buyer is advised to either arrange that or operate it at their own risk.

- Joe
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Old 2nd Jan 2015, 8:21 pm   #4
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Default Re: Selling homebrew equipment

You can't sell them as working if they don't meet the required safety standards.

Disclaimers mean nothing if you knowingly sell something potentially dangerous, so the best option would be to sell them as spares and make no suggestion that they work.

Regards
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Old 2nd Jan 2015, 8:28 pm   #5
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Default Re: Selling homebrew equipment

I didn't think home-brew had to meet any standards? I've seen lots of 'chassis only' sets offered and home-brew as well. Don't think it matters for home-brew as they are what they are. What standards would apply?
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Old 2nd Jan 2015, 8:40 pm   #6
ValvoStef
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Default Re: Selling homebrew equipment

I am worried about the worst case cenario: amp is on, kiddo pulls a tube out ant puts a pin into the tube base, gets 400 dc and drops down dead. Where would I stand, legally? Basically I sell equipment with exposed dangerous voltages.
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Old 2nd Jan 2015, 8:50 pm   #7
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Default Re: Selling homebrew equipment

David (Radio Dave) is right. UK law (the Electrical Equipment (Safety) Regulations 1994 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1.../contents/made) says that any electrical equipment sold in the UK (any at all, as I understand it) must be 'safe'. And any manufactured after a certain date must be CE marked, which involves asserting that it complies with the appropriate standards. It sounds tough I know, but it's the law. Anyone who doesn't like it will have to try to get the law changed (best of luck !).

I think the only get out is if you really, genuinely, honestly, hand-on-heart believe that the kit will only be used for disassembly into spares, or as the starting point for a rebuild which will make it safe. If, on the other hand, you suspect that the buyer is going to plug it in and use it as it is then it doesn't matter what disclaimers you've posted or what separating-it-into-bits-and-selling-the-bits-in-separate-transactions or other rear-end-covering tricks you've tried to play. I fear you will be laughed out of court.

When I asked Trading Standards about this they said that a court is where any and all final decisions on the matter would be made. And if a buyer (or, heaven forbid, their recently bereaved next of kin) should take me there and show that I'd sold something which wasn't safe then I would need a sharp lawyer and a very, very good explanation indeed.

Having said all that I don't think a thermionic valve is significantly less safe than a filament light bulb is it ? Maybe the only difference is that some valves run cool enough that they could be removed while powered. But then so do blown light bulbs.

Cheers,

GJ
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Old 2nd Jan 2015, 8:51 pm   #8
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Default Re: Selling homebrew equipment

Hi,
For what it's worth, I find writing a good disclaimer helps.

The advice re selling as for spares/parts is good but as a "belt and braces measure" it's best to put some strong wording in your "conditions of sale" section along the lines of do not purchase these items if you have no prior electrical/electronic knowledge, I know it narrows your target audience of buyers but it's better to be safe than sorry.

If you would like to PM me I'm happy to send you a copy of my own eBay "disclaimer" which I add to everything I sell on there.

Regards

Andrew
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Old 2nd Jan 2015, 8:52 pm   #9
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Default Re: Selling homebrew equipment

You may have answered your own question there. Either case it, or ensure that only someone knowledgeable is able to switch it on. Even then you may be open to legal sharks.
Is it just one, or a few. If the latter you could be classed as a Manufacturer or Dealer?
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Old 2nd Jan 2015, 10:14 pm   #10
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Default Re: Selling homebrew equipment

I think that, having done some research, GrimJosef has explained the legal situation pretty well.

It's up to forum members to decide whether to heed the advice or not.
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