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Old 4th Nov 2019, 5:54 pm   #21
toshiba tony
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Default Re: Colour TV in UK in 1966-surely not!!

Wasn't it May 67, something rings in my head. BBC2 only of course, 625 b
UHF
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Old 4th Nov 2019, 6:27 pm   #22
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Default Re: Colour TV in UK in 1966-surely not!!

BBC2 was transmitting colour for quite a while before the official opening announcement in June for the Wimbledon Tennis. Pre June the transmissions were aimed for the trade and were not official programmes.
It was the same in late 1969 when BBC1 and ITV went over to colour on 15th November. There were odd occasions when channel 23 would perk up and show the current ITV programme in colour then close down again. Channel 26 would do the same and I remember the Frost programme being announced that it was going out in colour. I pressed the UHF button on our Murphy CTV2210D and low and behold it was Frost in colour. It seems only yesterday. Those early colour days were great fun. John.
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Old 4th Nov 2019, 6:57 pm   #23
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Default Re: Colour TV in UK in 1966-surely not!!

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Originally Posted by Heatercathodeshort View Post
BBC2 was transmitting colour for quite a while before the official opening announcement in June for the Wimbledon Tennis. Pre June the transmissions were aimed for the trade and were not official programmes.
It was the same in late 1969 when BBC1 and ITV went over to colour on 15th November. There were odd occasions when channel 23 would perk up and show the current ITV programme in colour then close down again. Channel 26 would do the same and I remember the Frost programme being announced that it was going out in colour. I pressed the UHF button on our Murphy CTV2210D and low and behold it was Frost in colour. It seems only yesterday. Those early colour days were great fun. John.
It's a true fact that color TV was out first in 1953 in the US, but there was no real point owning one. There very little programming and the sets out at the time were small screens in big, bulky cabinets.
Another reason, was many stations in lesser populated areas didn't have the means to invest in new transmitting equipment.
Almost, ten years later, the sales of color sets really took off.
As much as I like my toys, I didn't own a set until December 1965. Even then, there was still many programs still in only B/W. Many of the adverts were in color.
Dave, been around awhile!
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Old 4th Nov 2019, 7:01 pm   #24
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Default Re: Colour TV in UK in 1966-surely not!!

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I thought the coverage was transmitted on BBC1 and BBC2 at the same time.....? You got me thinking now

Lawrence.
BBC1 had the coverage:

https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedule...don/1966-07-30

But I don't know if BBC2 did show it or not, as BBC Genome only lists what was listed in Radio Times, so if listings changed last-minute after publication (as they were liable to with such an event like this), I don't know.

https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedule...and/1966-07-30

I do know that the BBC's VT coverage of the match proves that it was shot in 625 b/w with old image orthicon tube cameras (so that actual footage was never in colour at any point), but I think that choice of line standards is more likely to do with them feeding the rest of the Eurovision broadcast network (most of which was 625) than it was to do with a potential BBC2 broadcast.

BBC2 do have a Radio Times billing for some WC coverage, but only as a highlights package along with other sports later that evening.

Of course, ITV's coverage (compiled in "World of Sport" by Midlands and North weekend contractor ABC Television and OB equipment and staff provided by London weekday contractor Rediffusion Television and paid for by London weekend contractor ATV) was 405 from source. I've seen clips of this, which also suggest it survives on the original 2" Quad videotape.

Last edited by AidanLunn; 4th Nov 2019 at 7:09 pm.
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Old 4th Nov 2019, 7:11 pm   #25
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Default Re: Colour TV in UK in 1966-surely not!!

I remember in the 1966-67 winter on the BBC radio local news (NW so Winter Hill) at 6.55am it was nearly always announced that for those lucky to have a colour TV the "Virginian" (western) would be shown in colour at 8pm. I cannot remember exactly if it was late 66 or early 67, I do remember it was dark outside!
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Old 4th Nov 2019, 7:20 pm   #26
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Default Re: Colour TV in UK in 1966-surely not!!

There were test transmissions from Winter Hill in the Winter of 66/67, it was coloured slides that I saw on a Baird CTV at Wigan tech.
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Old 4th Nov 2019, 7:20 pm   #27
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Default Re: Colour TV in UK in 1966-surely not!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AidanLunn View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ms660 View Post
I thought the coverage was transmitted on BBC1 and BBC2 at the same time.....? You got me thinking now

Lawrence.
BBC1 had the coverage:

https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedule...don/1966-07-30

But I don't know if BBC2 did show it or not, as BBC Genome only lists what was listed in Radio Times, so if listings changed last-minute after publication (as they were liable to with such an event like this), I don't know.

https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedule...and/1966-07-30

I do know that the BBC's VT coverage of the match proves that it was shot in 625 b/w with old image orthicon tube cameras (so that actual footage was never in colour at any point), but I think that choice of line standards is more likely to do with them feeding the rest of the Eurovision broadcast network (most of which was 625) than it was to do with a potential BBC2 broadcast.

BBC2 do have a Radio Times billing for some WC coverage, but only as a highlights package along with other sports later that evening.

Of course, ITV's coverage (compiled in "World of Sport" by Midlands and North weekend contractor ABC Television and OB equipment and staff provided by London weekday contractor Rediffusion Television and paid for by London weekend contractor ATV) was 405 from source. I've seen clips of this, which also suggest it survives on the original 2" Quad videotape.
The Genome for BBC Radio Times for the afternoon of 25 December 1974 is totally wrong. Billy Smarts Circus and other shows were not transmitted. After the Queens speech at 3.15pm The musical "Oliver" was shown. I remember because I watched it. I also have a N1500 video tape with TOTPs and just before the Queens speech we have a trailer for the film and details of the schedule for that day.
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Old 4th Nov 2019, 7:34 pm   #28
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Default Re: Colour TV in UK in 1966-surely not!!

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Originally Posted by Davewantsone View Post

The Genome for BBC Radio Times for the afternoon of 25 December 1974 is totally wrong. Billy Smarts Circus and other shows were not transmitted. After the Queens speech at 3.15pm The musical "Oliver" was shown. I remember because I watched it. I also have a N1500 video tape with TOTPs and just before the Queens speech we have a trailer for the film and details of the schedule for that day.
I did note that it only relays what was published in Radio Times, not what was actually transmitted.

Something similar happened at Christmas 1984, note what the BBC1 announcer David Allan says here at 0m 45s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGc3tdcohfM
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Old 4th Nov 2019, 7:42 pm   #29
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Default Re: Colour TV in UK in 1966-surely not!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AidanLunn View Post
I don't know if BBC2 did show it or not, as BBC Genome only lists what was listed in Radio Times, so if listings changed last-minute after publication (as they were liable to with such an event like this), I don't know.
They could have changed the schedule, they still do it today...annoyingly.

I know that my parents would have watched it on the main tv (a 405 only TV) in the living room but I have no recollection of watching it with them but I do remember watching it on my old HMV 1845 up in my bedroom, had I converted it to 625 by then? I thought I had but I guess I'll never know for sure, I even fitted it up with a wired remote for an on/off, volume control and I think a brightness control, the control knobs I fitted were the same style as those used on the Baird 640 type receivers, the tuner was a rotary PC86/PC88 job.

Lawrence.
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Old 4th Nov 2019, 11:05 pm   #30
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Default Re: Colour TV in UJ in 1966-surely not!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickthedentist View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rambo1152 View Post
A pedent, such as myself, might point out that the article said the match was viewed on a colour set, not that it was in colour.
Looks like I'm more pedantic than you
On USENET and by extension Web fora, that phenomenon is known as "Skitts Law"
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Old 5th Nov 2019, 12:11 am   #31
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Default Re: Colour TV in UK in 1966-surely not!!

I've heard some editions of Late Night Line Up were transmitted in colour before the official launch, & not billed as such.

I guess the were using colour cameras to get studio staff used to working with them before the launch.
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Old 5th Nov 2019, 1:57 pm   #32
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Default Re: Colour TV in UK in 1966-surely not!!

From TV Mag Wiki...

"Introduced on BBC 2 for Wimbledon coverage on Saturday, July 1, 1967. The launch of the BBC 2 "full" colour service took place on December 2, 1967. Some British TV programs, however, had been produced in colour even before the introduction of colour television in 1967, for the purpose of sales to American, Canadian, and Filipino networks. Full-time colour broadcasts since 1969"
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Old 5th Nov 2019, 2:33 pm   #33
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Default Re: Colour TV in UK in 1966-surely not!!

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Originally Posted by paulsherwin View Post
The colour film of the 1966 World Cup was done for the Pathe News newsreel shown in cinemas. The BBC broadcast coverage was B&W.
Thats correct and i have a full copy of the match in colour.
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Old 5th Nov 2019, 2:59 pm   #34
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Default Re: Colour TV in UK in 1966-surely not!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by usradcoll1 View Post
It's a true fact that color TV was out first in 1953 in the US, but there was no real point owning one. There very little programming and the sets out at the time were small screens in big, bulky cabinets.
Another reason, was many stations in lesser populated areas didn't have the means to invest in new transmitting equipment.
Almost, ten years later, the sales of color sets really took off.
As much as I like my toys, I didn't own a set until December 1965. Even then, there was still many programs still in only B/W. Many of the adverts were in color.
Dave, been around awhile!
It took a long time to convert all the facilities to colour after the official launch in 1967/9. Smaller regional BBC studios were still using mono facilities into the 70s, which caused a real jolt while watching national news magazines such as Nationwide on a colour set. I think the last user of the BBC's old mono kit was the Open University in the late 70s.

The need to distribute colour TV programming was the cover story for the construction of the Post Office Backbone microwave network. It did indeed carry some TV signals, though the primary purpose was to distribute real time information from air defence radars. It has now been replaced with fibre optic and satellite links, both for military and civilian purposes.
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Old 6th Nov 2019, 12:06 pm   #35
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Default Re: Colour TV in UK in 1966-surely not!!

Like Peter (Reelman) I also was in Italy during the 1966 world cup final and had to listen to the World Cup on Italian radio on a boat sailing from Capri to Naples. The crew were surprised that I had no interest in football.
I have read the Daily Mail article and note that the person searching for his lost friend was a retired engineer. Possible his friend was also in some form of engineering and had an early colour set on test. With poor convergence and purity errors plus a few beers it might have looked colourful!
Perhaps a letter to the Daily Mail could get the writer to verify the situation.

John
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Old 6th Nov 2019, 12:54 pm   #36
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Default Re: Colour TV in UK in 1966-surely not!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_FM View Post
I've heard some editions of Late Night Line Up were transmitted in colour before the official launch, & not billed as such.

I guess the were using colour cameras to get studio staff used to working with them before the launch.
I've just finished listening to the audiobook of David Attenborough's memoirs, published in 2008. He was in charge of BBC2 at the time of the switch to colour and he confirms that some of the earliest colour transmissions in PAL were "Late Night Line Up"....specifically because they wanted to get skin tones right. Attenborough remembered seeing NTSC colour TV in the 50s and how everything was very garish. He and the engineers were looking at how to best deliver true to life colour pictures using the relatively crude colour cameras available at the time.
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Old 6th Nov 2019, 1:12 pm   #37
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Default Re: Colour TV in UK in 1966-surely not!!

Ref post #34, my parents didn't have a colour TV till 1977 - a dual standard G6 I'd bought ex-rental and renovated. A steep learning curve for a teenager! The news was, of couirse, in colour, but if there was a regional insert from our local area (BBC Bangor in north Wales) it was still in black and white, and was for many subsequent years. Anything from south Wales was, of course, in colour and had been for years. 'Twas ever thus...
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Old 6th Nov 2019, 3:56 pm   #38
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Default Re: Colour TV in UK in 1966-surely not!!

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Ref post #34, my parents didn't have a colour TV till 1977 - a dual standard G6 I'd bought ex-rental and renovated. A steep learning curve for a teenager! The news was, of couirse, in colour, but if there was a regional insert from our local area (BBC Bangor in north Wales) it was still in black and white, and was for many subsequent years. Anything from south Wales was, of course, in colour and had been for years. 'Twas ever thus...
I heard Bangor was one of the last of the BBC's studios to convert to colour, Nottingham was another late one.
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Old 6th Nov 2019, 4:22 pm   #39
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Default Re: Colour TV in UK in 1966-surely not!!

Wife used to work at BBC Wood Norton way back in the early sixties and saw colour tv there in 1963, must have been NTSC experimental sets.
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Old 7th Nov 2019, 6:39 pm   #40
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Default Re: Colour TV in UK in 1966-surely not!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulliver View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_FM View Post
I've heard some editions of Late Night Line Up were transmitted in colour before the official launch, & not billed as such.

I guess the were using colour cameras to get studio staff used to working with them before the launch.
I've just finished listening to the audiobook of David Attenborough's memoirs, published in 2008. He was in charge of BBC2 at the time of the switch to colour and he confirms that some of the earliest colour transmissions in PAL were "Late Night Line Up"....specifically because they wanted to get skin tones right. Attenborough remembered seeing NTSC colour TV in the 50s and how everything was very garish. He and the engineers were looking at how to best deliver true to life colour pictures using the relatively crude colour cameras available at the time.
Although these were somewhat unpublished test broadcasts, on quite a few I saw at the time the programme presenter would actually reference the fact that they were transmitting the programme in colour. I was always watching in B&W.
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