Another Pye Black Box - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

TonyDuell · 3rd Dec 2020, 12:10 pm

I've just staggered home with a Pye Black Box

It's valved, a pair of EL42s in the output stage. I've not taken the amplifier out yet so I've not looked at their wiring to see if it's a Mk1 or Mk2.

The autochanger seems to be a BSR Monarch UA8, is that likely? One knob is broken/missing, the motor mounts have sagged. Otherwise looks fine.

Overall it's in pretty good condition, and I think well worth restoring.

Just out of curiousity, what is the approximate value of said player? I don't think I paid over the odds though.

Edward Huggins · 3rd Dec 2020, 12:48 pm

These early BBs were fitted with a BSR UA6 deck 3 speed deck. These were specially made and badged for Pye as we specified a metal tone arm. From mid/late 1956 the, then new, UA8 4 speed decks were fitted. What ever one you have may still have the original groove-grinding Acos mono cartridge, but without any photos from you I cannot tell if this have been udated. There were 2 versions of the EL42 amplifier with quite different specifications. The motor suspension can be made good with stacked rubber grommets. As to value - I can't see it yet!

TonyDuell · 3rd Dec 2020, 3:31 pm

The deck on mine is certainly a 4 speed. I've not examined the cartridge yet, it may well be one with no vertical compliance.

I thought the differrence between the 2 versions of the EL42-output amplifier was that the Mk1 had the output valves strapped as triodes, the Mk2 had an 'ultralinear' output stage with the screen grids connected to taps on the output transformer. Are there more versions?

John10b · 3rd Dec 2020, 5:06 pm

I restored a Pye BB a while ago, Mk 2 according to circuit diagram, I have attached a few pictures, so perhaps the deck is the same as yours, also a picture of the original cartridge, which I replaced with X5M.
John

John10b · 3rd Dec 2020, 5:14 pm

In answer to your question I bought the BB as a non worker for £10, from forum member, after restoration I’m asking £50. Does this seem about right?
John

TonyDuell · 3rd Dec 2020, 5:44 pm

That does look like the deck in my unit, although the right-hand knob of mine is broken off and missing. Not sure about the cartridge, it is a turnover type though.

I paid £40 for mine which I think is reasonable (so I also think your £50 price after restoration is a bit low).

Edward Huggins · 3rd Dec 2020, 5:52 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyDuell

The deck on mine is certainly a 4 speed. I've not examined the cartridge yet, it may well be one with no vertical compliance.

I thought the differrence between the 2 versions of the EL42-output amplifier was that the Mk1 had the output valves strapped as triodes, the Mk2 had an 'ultralinear' output stage with the screen grids connected to taps on the output transformer. Are there more versions?

No, there were no more versions. You you are quite correct, these were the two EL42 amplifier versions - but as I stated, they do have different specifications. In terms of the permutations, the 1954 to 1956 Mk1 and (a lesser run of) Mk2 BBs were fitted with the BSR UA6. From mid/late 1956 the Mk2 was then fitted with a completely standard BSR UA8. From 1958 the Mk3 (PCL83) came with a Garrard deck, but that's nother story and I'll end here!

wd40addict · 4th Dec 2020, 10:22 am

John's picture shows the four speed UA8. Here's a picture of my BB mkii with three speed UA6. Note there are two flavours of UA6, mine has the later style overarm.

Techman · 4th Dec 2020, 4:02 pm

I like the old UA6 - I think there was possibly a very vintage looking all brown version of this deck, but can't confirm this.

There's nearly always a broken off knob on the UA8, but it's usually the left hand speed change one, with a hundred folk out there looking and asking for them in the wanted section. With yours being the right hand knob that's broken and missing, you possibly stand some sort of chance of finding one. Dansette dot com once had a stock of spares for these at I think something like £30 a throw, but they sold out in a very short time and haven't had anymore since that I know of...I think they may have been remanufactured specially (I note that they now sell replacement idler wheels). The problem is that the mechanism goes solid and folk still try to turn the controls and end up snapping them off - it always happens with the UA8, so clean and lubricate first.

It's often one leg of the optx that goes o/c if someone has tried to fire it up for any length of time with the original o/p stage coupling capacitors still in place. If the player has been left untouched for decades with no attempt to "see if it works" in recent times, then the transformer may well be ok - I think there's a lot of luck in it.

I think I paid something like £20 for mine at a local auction several years ago - it would have been a fiver if I hadn't had this one annoying chap bidding against me!

Edward Huggins · 4th Dec 2020, 4:26 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Techman

I like the old UA6 - I think there was possibly a very vintage looking all brown version of this deck, but can't confirm this.

I think I paid something like £20 for mine at a local auction several years ago - it would have been a fiver if I hadn't had this one annoying chap bidding against me!

Yes, there was certainly a quite rare, lightish-brown version of the UA6.
Even earlier was the all-brown 1952 Monarch UA4 (UA5?), BSR's first ever 3 speed autochanger. These were used in some of the pre-production samples and were also used by some Dealers for Demo purposes. In the interest of completeness, there was also the single-player version using the Collaro AC354 3 speed deck with a plug-in pick up head. These were discontinued in 1956. Again, I could go on....and on.

nicam49 · 5th Dec 2020, 11:35 pm

Edward, please do! Always a pleasure and an education to read your contributions. Thought of writing a book?

3rd Dec 2020, 12:10 pm	#1
TonyDuell Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Biggin Hill, London, UK. Posts: 5,224	Another Pye Black Box I've just staggered home with a Pye Black Box It's valved, a pair of EL42s in the output stage. I've not taken the amplifier out yet so I've not looked at their wiring to see if it's a Mk1 or Mk2. The autochanger seems to be a BSR Monarch UA8, is that likely? One knob is broken/missing, the motor mounts have sagged. Otherwise looks fine. Overall it's in pretty good condition, and I think well worth restoring. Just out of curiousity, what is the approximate value of said player? I don't think I paid over the odds though.

3rd Dec 2020, 12:48 pm	#2
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,340	Re: Another Pye Black Box These early BBs were fitted with a BSR UA6 deck 3 speed deck. These were specially made and badged for Pye as we specified a metal tone arm. From mid/late 1956 the, then new, UA8 4 speed decks were fitted. What ever one you have may still have the original groove-grinding Acos mono cartridge, but without any photos from you I cannot tell if this have been udated. There were 2 versions of the EL42 amplifier with quite different specifications. The motor suspension can be made good with stacked rubber grommets. As to value - I can't see it yet! __________________ Edward.

3rd Dec 2020, 3:31 pm	#3
TonyDuell Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Biggin Hill, London, UK. Posts: 5,224	Re: Another Pye Black Box The deck on mine is certainly a 4 speed. I've not examined the cartridge yet, it may well be one with no vertical compliance. I thought the differrence between the 2 versions of the EL42-output amplifier was that the Mk1 had the output valves strapped as triodes, the Mk2 had an 'ultralinear' output stage with the screen grids connected to taps on the output transformer. Are there more versions?

3rd Dec 2020, 5:06 pm	#4
John10b Nonode Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Aberaeron, Ceredigion, Wales, UK. Posts: 2,887	Re: Another Pye Black Box I restored a Pye BB a while ago, Mk 2 according to circuit diagram, I have attached a few pictures, so perhaps the deck is the same as yours, also a picture of the original cartridge, which I replaced with X5M. John Attached Thumbnails

3rd Dec 2020, 5:14 pm	#5
John10b Nonode Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Aberaeron, Ceredigion, Wales, UK. Posts: 2,887	Re: Another Pye Black Box In answer to your question I bought the BB as a non worker for £10, from forum member, after restoration I’m asking £50. Does this seem about right? John

3rd Dec 2020, 5:44 pm	#6
TonyDuell Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Biggin Hill, London, UK. Posts: 5,224	Re: Another Pye Black Box That does look like the deck in my unit, although the right-hand knob of mine is broken off and missing. Not sure about the cartridge, it is a turnover type though. I paid £40 for mine which I think is reasonable (so I also think your £50 price after restoration is a bit low).

4th Dec 2020, 10:22 am	#8
wd40addict Octode Join Date: May 2009 Location: Stevenage, Herts. UK. Posts: 1,518	Re: Another Pye Black Box John's picture shows the four speed UA8. Here's a picture of my BB mkii with three speed UA6. Note there are two flavours of UA6, mine has the later style overarm. Attached Thumbnails

4th Dec 2020, 4:02 pm	#9
Techman Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lincolnshire, UK. Posts: 5,000	Re: Another Pye Black Box I like the old UA6 - I think there was possibly a very vintage looking all brown version of this deck, but can't confirm this. There's nearly always a broken off knob on the UA8, but it's usually the left hand speed change one, with a hundred folk out there looking and asking for them in the wanted section. With yours being the right hand knob that's broken and missing, you possibly stand some sort of chance of finding one. Dansette dot com once had a stock of spares for these at I think something like £30 a throw, but they sold out in a very short time and haven't had anymore since that I know of...I think they may have been remanufactured specially (I note that they now sell replacement idler wheels). The problem is that the mechanism goes solid and folk still try to turn the controls and end up snapping them off - it always happens with the UA8, so clean and lubricate first. It's often one leg of the optx that goes o/c if someone has tried to fire it up for any length of time with the original o/p stage coupling capacitors still in place. If the player has been left untouched for decades with no attempt to "see if it works" in recent times, then the transformer may well be ok - I think there's a lot of luck in it. I think I paid something like £20 for mine at a local auction several years ago - it would have been a fiver if I hadn't had this one annoying chap bidding against me!

5th Dec 2020, 11:35 pm	#11
nicam49 Hexode Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Wigston, Leicester, UK. Posts: 351	Re: Another Pye Black Box Edward, please do! Always a pleasure and an education to read your contributions. Thought of writing a book?