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Vintage Audio (record players, hi-fi etc) Amplifiers, speakers, gramophones and other audio equipment.

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Old 6th Dec 2017, 6:58 pm   #21
SurreyNick
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Default Re: Restore an HMV 2127

Ahh. I should have checked the valve data first
Thank you
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Old 6th Dec 2017, 7:00 pm   #22
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Default Re: Restore an HMV 2127

Quote:
Originally Posted by SurreyNick View Post
One other question on the cartridge. Would I be better going for a BSR X5H over the X5M? From what I have just read the X5H is for high gain and is necessary where there is just one audio valve, which is all this model 2127 has.N.
H denotes high output, used for a single stage amplifier.

M denotes medium output, used for a two stage amplifier.

The ECL83 valve in yours is two valves in one envelope, so the amp will be a 2 stage job, so X5M should be ok so far as its output is concerned.

EDIT: Post crossed.

Lawrence.

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Old 6th Dec 2017, 7:07 pm   #23
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Default Re: Restore an HMV 2127

Frank, that's sound advice about doing some checks before spending any money just in case there are expensive items that have failed, so that's where I will begin.

I have bought the technical datasheet for the deck (thanks Lawrence) and it appears to be spot on.

I have also come across the excellent guide on this forum about restoring vintage record players, so I can follow that too.

N.
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Old 6th Dec 2017, 7:15 pm   #24
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Default Re: Restore an HMV 2127

There should be guidance in the Service Sheet as to the pick weight/tone arm adjustment. Even with a NOS BSR X5M which will be kind to stereo records, getting the weight down is just as important. This tone arm probably originally tracked at 8-10 grams and I do reiterate, this was not designed for use with stereo records. Edward
PS Not only is the BSR X5H high-output cartridge unsuitable, these are now virtually unobtainable anywhere.
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Old 6th Dec 2017, 8:13 pm   #25
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Default Re: Restore an HMV 2127

The tracking weight problem might at least partially sort itself out. The X5M won't come with a metal chassis and spring assembly and will probably be several grams lighter anyway.

Make sure you get a mounting clip with the cartridge. The centres should match the centres used already in the tonearm for the Acos.
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Old 6th Dec 2017, 10:05 pm   #26
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Default Re: Restore an HMV 2127

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Originally Posted by Edward Huggins View Post
This won't damage your Wife's LPs, but you must get the tracking weight down to 5 grams or less.
The only problem being that as far as I remember, there is no adjustment for the tracking weight on these decks, and even if there is, getting the arm to track at that weight would be very difficult.
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Old 6th Dec 2017, 10:59 pm   #27
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Default Re: Restore an HMV 2127

Gosh. Well I hope it is possible to get it to track at 5 grams because I have already gone and bought the BSR X5M
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Old 6th Dec 2017, 11:52 pm   #28
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Default Re: Restore an HMV 2127

Here's some blown up clips from that datasheet- might help decide for sure if it's what you need....
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 12:44 am   #29
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Default Re: Restore an HMV 2127

Don't despair - Edward writes the tracking weight originally was 8 - 10 gms. I reckon you will lose 4 or 5 by switching to the X5M.

Is there really not so much as a spring balancing that tonearm that could be changed or shortened?
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 2:29 pm   #30
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Default Re: Restore an HMV 2127

The datasheet looks the same and I have bought a copy - thank you.

In regards a spring balancing the tonearm, there might be possible, I just haven't had a close look yet. I have bought an X5M and when it comes to re-assembling the tonearm I can see what's needed.

I think I have found a copy of the service sheet too at http://www.shopingathome.com/Circuit...0Lists/HMV.htm

N.
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 6:20 pm   #31
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Default Re: Restore an HMV 2127

The original crystal cartridge had two longish styli protruding from it and the original end of the arm containing the cartridge transducer could be inclined slightly in one direction direction or the other to make either the mono lp or 78 stylus available to the record. I notice the arm has already been modified to accept the blunderbus Acos GP 67 which was a distorted beast at best. You may be fortunate and with a much lighter cartridge be able to track records of newer vintage but the mechanics of the arm may not be favourable. We had one in my family in 1956 and it played a stack of 78's and then later 45 mono singles. It belonged to an uncle of mine and put a repeating groove in a pristine copy of South Pacific, in the days when lps were offered for sale in separate versions, Mono and Stereo. Plessey never made good record players just functional ones. They then took over Garrard and look what happened to that company. Having said all that, this player worked very well and should perform well as a vintage tune player. If you could obtain a Shure SC35 stereo cartridge, wire it mono and get the arm to track at 6gm, the higher end of that cartridge, it is not particularly likely to do much damage to stereo records bearing in mind how many times you play a record in it's lifetime with you. By the way the manufacturers sheet states the SC 35 tracking spec is 3-6gms.
Have fun and enjoy.
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 11:12 pm   #32
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Default Re: Restore an HMV 2127

Sorry to disagree, but originally, there were two headshells with this deck. each with a single stylus. One headshell had a green flash on the top, with a stylus for 78, and the other a red flash and a stylus for 45/33. On the OPs' deck, the flash has been removed, and a hole drilled through to hold the present Acos cartridge.


Isn't the Shure a magnetic cartridge? If so. then the output will be far too low for the amp in this player, given that the original was crystal.
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 11:19 pm   #33
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Default Re: Restore an HMV 2127

Shure SC35C 5mV into 47k

https://www.shure.co.uk/products/dj-phono/sc35c
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Old 8th Dec 2017, 12:21 am   #34
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Default Re: Restore an HMV 2127

Not suitable, then.
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Old 8th Dec 2017, 12:22 am   #35
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Default Re: Restore an HMV 2127

Indeed the shure SC35 is a magnetic cartridge but like the far more expensive 44 can track at heavier forces due to the sturdier cantilever.
I am negligent in not suggesting a small pre-amp, readily available from a number of sources nowadays which would improve the fidelity by a wide margin. Incidentally the SC 35 was the device we all heard records reproduced with on the BBC from the end of the 1970's to 1989 or thereabouts when the Corporation changed to the ortofon OM Pro, another conical tip with a stiffer cantilever and tracking between 2 and 6 gm. These are also good re-tipped for 78.
Sorry for slightly misleading the conversation.
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Old 8th Dec 2017, 11:55 am   #36
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Default Re: Restore an HMV 2127

Whether an appropriate option or nay, it's all valuable knowledge and welcome, and for the moment at least it's academic because I have bought the BSR X5M

On a positive note, on the datasheet for the Plessey deck it states there is a hexagon nut on the pickup arm vertical pivot (positioned between pivot bracket and pickup arm) which can be adjusted to increase/decrease the stylus pressure. Whether I can get it to c.5 grams I will have to wait and see once the new cartridge and stylus is installed.

Nick
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Old 8th Dec 2017, 9:57 pm   #37
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Default Re: Restore an HMV 2127

Just been reading the 'reviving your old record player' guide on this forum and it mentions that portable domestic record players with the facility for an add-on speaker/amp unit for stereo reproduction are quite common.

This got me to wondering if this is this a mod that could be made to a record player such as mine?

For the moment I don't have any plans to do anything other than get this player working properly but I would still be interested to know.

Nick
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Old 8th Dec 2017, 10:53 pm   #38
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Default Re: Restore an HMV 2127

If you can find a suitable stereo cartridge, then yes. You'll need to thread another pair (or at least one) of fine wires down the tonearm and bring the signal out on a suitable connector. You may want to do clever things with switched sockets or flying leads as per the typical OEM add on setups. Ideally the add on amp should be an electrical match for the existing amp and as close to the original speaker layout and box appearance as possible for aesthetic compatibility. Of course more or less any old second channel setup will still give you stereo of a sort.
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Old 8th Dec 2017, 11:02 pm   #39
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Default Re: Restore an HMV 2127

That's very interesting, thanks Chris
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Old 8th Dec 2017, 11:50 pm   #40
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Default Re: Restore an HMV 2127

To set the historical record straight, I thought That I was not going potty but remembered I had seen the old two stylus cartridge. There was an early version of this plessey turntable and it is described on Paul's DVD. The cartridge was mono the year 1952 and in the ert sheet the crystal element within the head is described as inclining so as to show the 2nd stylus to the record. The tracking force of that cartridge was said to be set at 10-12gms though as has been admitted this is adjustable.
By now you will probably have some work on your hands to make the arm free enough in the horizontal and vertical and spring counterbalance is not the best for stereo, though many of the BSR ceramics are surprisingly good!
I wish you well.
Mike
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