UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players

Notices

Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players Open-reel tape recorders, cassette recorders, 8-track players etc.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 5th Dec 2017, 9:48 pm   #1
defender
Triode
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 23
Default Tape to Tape recording

I have these two tape decks Akai 1720L and Marconiphone 4218.
If I link them together with a DIN to DIN lead can I do tape to tape or does it need an amp in between?
defender is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2017, 10:48 pm   #2
kalee20
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Lynton, N. Devon, UK.
Posts: 4,447
Default Re: Tape to Tape recording

It probably won't need an amplifier in-between.

However, watch the DIN to DIN lead! You may need one with crossed connections, because the line output of one machine must go to the line input of the other. I'm guessing Pin 2 links to Pin 2 (middle pin); Pin 1 to Pin 3 and Pin 3 to Pin 1; and (if stereo) 5 - 4 and 4 - 5.
kalee20 is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2017, 3:10 am   #3
michamoo
Hexode
 
michamoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Cambridge, Cambs. UK.
Posts: 366
Default Re: Tape to Tape recording

This type of DIN lead was often known as a mirror
__________________
If smoking is so bad for you, how come it cures kippers?
michamoo is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2017, 10:07 am   #4
ricard
Octode
 
ricard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Lund, Sweden
Posts: 1,230
Default Re: Tape to Tape recording

I'm guessing the Akai also has RCA (Phono) type connectors, if so, and the idea of figuring out which type of DIN cable you have doesn't appeal to you, you could use a 4x RCA to DIN cable, which allows you to experiment with signal connections by just moving around the RCA connectors.
ricard is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2017, 11:07 am   #5
brenellic2000
Octode
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rye, East Sussex, UK.
Posts: 1,465
Default Re: Tape to Tape recording

Just a quick add to Kalees' comment - don't forget to clearly mark this DIN to DIN cable as a mirror/reverse - it saves an awful lot of embarrassing head scratching later on...
brenellic2000 is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2017, 1:59 pm   #6
defender
Triode
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 23
Default Re: Tape to Tape recording

Thanks for the replies,
I have a din to din and a din to 2 phonos but don't know which way round they are
defender is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2017, 3:11 pm   #7
AC/HL
Moderator
 
AC/HL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 6,288
Default Re: Tape to Tape recording

DIN to phono is easy, just reverse the plugs until it works, DIN to DIN needs the help of a soldering iron if it's the wrong way round.
__________________
Bill, BVWS member
AC/HL is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2017, 3:52 pm   #8
Dave Moll
Dekatron
 
Dave Moll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK
Posts: 3,634
Default Re: Tape to Tape recording

... as long as the two phono centres are connected to pins 1 and 3 of the DIN - i.e. single channel bi-directional, as opposed to dual channel uni-directional.
__________________
Mending is better than Ending (cf Brave New World by Aldous Huxley)
Dave Moll is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2017, 11:46 pm   #9
red16v
Pentode
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Winchester, Hampshire, UK.
Posts: 182
Default Re: Tape to Tape recording

Quote:
Originally Posted by AC/HL View Post
DIN to phono is easy, just reverse the plugs until it works, DIN to DIN needs the help of a soldering iron if it's the wrong way round.
.. but would also lead to the possibility of reversing left and right so the op will need to identify L & R on the source material.
red16v is online now  
Old 8th Dec 2017, 7:50 am   #10
Synchrodyne
Nonode
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Mt. Maunganui, New Zealand
Posts: 2,025
Default Re: Tape to Tape recording

With two tape decks/recorders coupled by a reversing (mirror) DIN-to-DIN, there might be some signal level disparities, although perhaps not of such magnitude that they cannot be addressed by appropriate settings of the input and output gain controls.

Tape recorder DIN inputs were usually designed to accept signals from amplifier DIN outputs, which in turn were usually (but not always) of the DIN “constant current” type that typically delivered relatively lower signal levels than the by the regular (phono socket) tape recording outputs. Thus, tape recorder DIN inputs were usually somewhat more sensitive than tape recorder line inputs. On the other hand, tape recorder DIN output signal levels were usually of the about the same magnitude as the corresponding line outputs.

For the Akai 1720L, the numbers I can find are:

Line input: 30 mV, 140k
DIN input: 10 mV, 43k

DIN output: 2.5 V maximum, looking to at least 50 k.

With say a pair of Akai 1720Ls inter coupled via their DIN sockets, the output volume control of the sending unit would need to be wound back quite a bit (more than 30 dB down) to provide say around 50 mV or so for the DIN input, or whatever similar-order-of-magnitude number is required to provide a margin above 0 VU with the input gain control (of the receiving unit) at a reasonable setting.

Anyway, whilst some signal attenuation might be required with the DIN-to-DIN connection, amplification is unlikely to be required given that tape recorder DIN outputs typically deliver much more signal than is required by tape recorder DIN inputs.

On the other hand, attempting to cross-link two control units or amplifiers this way can run into difficulties, in that the signal level delivered by the DIN tape record out socket could well be noticeably less than that required by the DIN tape in socket.

Where the use of a DIN socket at each end is unavoidable when interconnecting two tape recorders, then using two standard DIN-to-4 phono leads coupled at their phono ends by barrel connectors to make up a reversing DIN-to-DIN lead has some advantage in that it is easy enough to insert attenuators between the phono plugs, if required (or if desired to obtain reasonable rather than extreme gain control settings).


Cheers,
Synchrodyne is offline  
Old 9th Dec 2017, 12:16 pm   #11
defender
Triode
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 23
Default Re: Tape to Tape recording

Well so far my din lead isn't going to work as nothing happens and it's got moulded plugs on.
With the din to phonos I had vu meter movement on the Akai on record (no tape) feeding it from the Marconi.
Just have to decide on a tape I want to record over (more on the way), and get a din to 4 phonos so I have the option to record to the Marconi
defender is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 9:19 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2018, Paul Stenning.