Slipping idler wheel on a Garrard 209 - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

vampyretim · 4th Dec 2019, 5:22 pm

Hi guys,

I've tried the usual method of fine sand paper and have sanded down lots of rubber. I kept on going as it wasn't working. I've done this to many idler wheels but have never had one fail like this before.

Can anyone recommend anything else for idler wheels?

Many thanks,
Tim.

slidertogrid · 4th Dec 2019, 5:37 pm

I have found the same with Garrard wheels sometimes they don't respond to refacing I assume the rubber has degraded throughout not just the edge. Sometimes there are minute cracks all around the circumference that definitely writes them off..
I have been lucky and managed to find good second hand replacements but otherwise I think there are firms that can recondition them ?
On stubborn decks that still slow down when auto changing even with a good idler and a cleaned and lubricated mechanism roughing up the inside rim of the turntable with course paper gives them that extra little bit of grip. sometimes needs must...

Rich

Edward Huggins · 4th Dec 2019, 8:51 pm

Whilst I always recommend shaving on a lathe/fixed hand-drill, the rubber on a 60yr old idler will have gone very hard, so softening up first may be neccessary. When ready I would skim a full 1mm off.

Michael Maurice · 5th Dec 2019, 12:46 am

I always fit refurbished idlers. I get them from Terry’s Rubber Rollers.

Argus25 · 5th Dec 2019, 4:25 am

I think one of the reasons the rubber degrades for the task, aside from it becoming harder is that it absorbs oils and it becomes more slippery over time and tends to develop a hardened glossy surface.

I recall being ably to fix many idler wheels simply by cleaning the running surface with Carbon tetrachloride, which resulted in a flat or matte surface with significantly increased frictional properties and anti slip properties.It acts as a "rubber restorative". It worked equally will on pinch rollers for tape decks too.

Like many useful chemicals, Carbon-Tet was discontinued. I still haven't found a chemical this good for restoring rubber surfaces, trichloroethylene helps a little, but its not nearly as effective.

At the time I was using Carbon Tet as a very young boy, there was a great episode of Lost In Space on TV, where Will Robinson travels back to Earth in a Maser Teleportation machine built by the Taurons, and returns with a bottle of Carbon-Tet:

https://lostinspace.fandom.com/wiki/...om_Outer_Space

So that made it one of my favorite chemicals and I was very disappointed when it was discontinued. Most Pharmacies stocked it as "dry cleaning fluid" .

joebog1 · 5th Dec 2019, 5:26 am

Carbon Tet is also wonderful for creating cancer.

As Argus25 will also remember every fire extinguisher made in Australia of brass and containing a hand pump was also full of Carbon Tet, at least in my memory! It was also the preferred method of cleaning brake parts in automotive appliances.

PERSONALLY I'm glad its gone.

Joe

sparkymike · 5th Dec 2019, 9:38 am

Try Plastidip liquid rubber, its worked for me in the past on idlers.
Make sure that the pivot pin does not have a build up of crud on it, or the idler bush hole could be the same.
Mike.

vampyretim · 5th Dec 2019, 11:28 am

Thanks guys,

I think I'm going to go with the plastidip option.

Sending the idler to America is a very expensive option, though might be handy for valuable reel to reel recorders.

Thanks again,
Tim.

Ekcoman · 5th Dec 2019, 9:56 pm

Have used flat cassette/video belts (bought as a mixed sized pack) as a tyre as a last resort, stuck carefully on with a good strong adhesive. Works well but needs a very steady hand.

Argus25 · 6th Dec 2019, 12:15 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by joebog1

Carbon Tet is also wonderful for creating cancer.

Joe

As are very many industrial chemicals, its probably not a lot worse than other compounds especially those containing Benzine rings. The problem with carbon-tet was in the dry cleaning industry where workers were breathing it 24/7. I think for home occasional use in a ventilated area it was perfectly ok.

thingley · 6th Dec 2019, 10:20 am

I'd be interested to know how you get on with Plastidip. I have a Garrard 3500 in a bush SRP51 that plays very fluttery. I've tried a few options including sanding and a rubber cleaner (AF Platenclene Cleaning Pump Spray). Soaking the idler in the rubber cleaner helped a lot but didn't fix it. The platter used to grind to a leisurely halt during the change cycle but is smoother now. But the sound is still too fluttery for listening to piano music on!

I was more or less resigned to having to send the idler to Terry's rubber rollers in America, so would be interested to know if plastidip works.

vampyretim · 6th Dec 2019, 2:43 pm

I'll let you know how it goes, if the platidip doesn't work I will try to re-surface it with a belt.

Thanks guys.

Heatercathodeshort · 6th Dec 2019, 3:20 pm

Very common problem with all vintage Garrard autochangers. I have tried every trick in the book. Some appear to solve the problem but soon return to the slip mode.
BSR idler wheels are of much better construction and it is extremely rare to find one that has hardened and become useless. They must have used a very high quality rubber. John.

Goldieoldie · 6th Dec 2019, 10:21 pm

There was a product sold to rejuvenate the rubber rollers in commercial printers .
Sorry can't remember the name but I believe some people reported success on using on
Idler wheels
Cheers
Pete

Argus25 · 7th Dec 2019, 8:31 am

All this talk about rejuvinating rubber made me very nostalgic about carbon-tet, which is the only chemical I ever found that would do it. So I decided to buy this vintage glass bottle. All I have to do now is find some actual carbon-tet to put in it !

sparkymike · 7th Dec 2019, 9:20 am

Using the plasti -dip is quite easy. Just rotate the wheel in the liquid to depth of the rubber and then hang it over an old tin so that the excess can drip off. If that it not enough then a further coating may be applied. Dents or chunks out of the wheels can be built up in stages, but not in one go, unless very shallow.
Mike.

4th Dec 2019, 5:22 pm	#1
vampyretim Heptode Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Bristol, UK. Posts: 538	Slipping idler wheel on a Garrard 209 Hi guys, I've tried the usual method of fine sand paper and have sanded down lots of rubber. I kept on going as it wasn't working. I've done this to many idler wheels but have never had one fail like this before. Can anyone recommend anything else for idler wheels? Many thanks, Tim.

4th Dec 2019, 5:37 pm	#2
slidertogrid Octode Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK. Posts: 1,898	Re: slipping idler wheel on a Garrard 209 I have found the same with Garrard wheels sometimes they don't respond to refacing I assume the rubber has degraded throughout not just the edge. Sometimes there are minute cracks all around the circumference that definitely writes them off.. I have been lucky and managed to find good second hand replacements but otherwise I think there are firms that can recondition them ? On stubborn decks that still slow down when auto changing even with a good idler and a cleaned and lubricated mechanism roughing up the inside rim of the turntable with course paper gives them that extra little bit of grip. sometimes needs must... Rich

4th Dec 2019, 8:51 pm	#3
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,327	Re: slipping idler wheel on a Garrard 209 Whilst I always recommend shaving on a lathe/fixed hand-drill, the rubber on a 60yr old idler will have gone very hard, so softening up first may be neccessary. When ready I would skim a full 1mm off. __________________ Edward.

5th Dec 2019, 12:46 am	#4
Michael Maurice Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Wembley, Middlesex Posts: 7,224	Re: Slipping idler wheel on a Garrard 209 I always fit refurbished idlers. I get them from Terry’s Rubber Rollers. __________________ Forum Moderator http://www.michaelmauricerepairs.co.uk/

5th Dec 2019, 4:25 am	#5
Argus25 No Longer a Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Maroochydore, Queensland, Australia. Posts: 2,679	Re: Slipping idler wheel on a Garrard 209 I think one of the reasons the rubber degrades for the task, aside from it becoming harder is that it absorbs oils and it becomes more slippery over time and tends to develop a hardened glossy surface. I recall being ably to fix many idler wheels simply by cleaning the running surface with Carbon tetrachloride, which resulted in a flat or matte surface with significantly increased frictional properties and anti slip properties.It acts as a "rubber restorative". It worked equally will on pinch rollers for tape decks too. Like many useful chemicals, Carbon-Tet was discontinued. I still haven't found a chemical this good for restoring rubber surfaces, trichloroethylene helps a little, but its not nearly as effective. At the time I was using Carbon Tet as a very young boy, there was a great episode of Lost In Space on TV, where Will Robinson travels back to Earth in a Maser Teleportation machine built by the Taurons, and returns with a bottle of Carbon-Tet: https://lostinspace.fandom.com/wiki/...om_Outer_Space So that made it one of my favorite chemicals and I was very disappointed when it was discontinued. Most Pharmacies stocked it as "dry cleaning fluid" . Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Argus25; 5th Dec 2019 at 4:37 am. Reason: Add image of Will Robinson with Carbon Tet.

5th Dec 2019, 5:26 am	#6
joebog1 Banned Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Mareeba, North Queensland, Australia Posts: 2,704	Re: Slipping idler wheel on a Garrard 209 Carbon Tet is also wonderful for creating cancer. As Argus25 will also remember every fire extinguisher made in Australia of brass and containing a hand pump was also full of Carbon Tet, at least in my memory! It was also the preferred method of cleaning brake parts in automotive appliances. PERSONALLY I'm glad its gone. Joe

5th Dec 2019, 9:38 am	#7
sparkymike Octode Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Colchester, Essex, UK. Posts: 1,076	Re: Slipping idler wheel on a Garrard 209 Try Plastidip liquid rubber, its worked for me in the past on idlers. Make sure that the pivot pin does not have a build up of crud on it, or the idler bush hole could be the same. Mike.

5th Dec 2019, 11:28 am	#8
vampyretim Heptode Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Bristol, UK. Posts: 538	Re: Slipping idler wheel on a Garrard 209 Thanks guys, I think I'm going to go with the plastidip option. Sending the idler to America is a very expensive option, though might be handy for valuable reel to reel recorders. Thanks again, Tim.

5th Dec 2019, 9:56 pm	#9
Ekcoman Heptode Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Southend, Essex, UK Posts: 663	Re: Slipping idler wheel on a Garrard 209 Have used flat cassette/video belts (bought as a mixed sized pack) as a tyre as a last resort, stuck carefully on with a good strong adhesive. Works well but needs a very steady hand. __________________ "I really am seriously downsizing "

6th Dec 2019, 10:20 am	#11
thingley Diode Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Exeter, Devon, UK. Posts: 2	Re: Slipping idler wheel on a Garrard 209 I'd be interested to know how you get on with Plastidip. I have a Garrard 3500 in a bush SRP51 that plays very fluttery. I've tried a few options including sanding and a rubber cleaner (AF Platenclene Cleaning Pump Spray). Soaking the idler in the rubber cleaner helped a lot but didn't fix it. The platter used to grind to a leisurely halt during the change cycle but is smoother now. But the sound is still too fluttery for listening to piano music on! I was more or less resigned to having to send the idler to Terry's rubber rollers in America, so would be interested to know if plastidip works.

6th Dec 2019, 2:43 pm	#12
vampyretim Heptode Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Bristol, UK. Posts: 538	Re: Slipping idler wheel on a Garrard 209 I'll let you know how it goes, if the platidip doesn't work I will try to re-surface it with a belt. Thanks guys.

6th Dec 2019, 3:20 pm	#13
Heatercathodeshort Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Warnham, West Sussex. 10 miles south of DORKING. Posts: 9,147	Re: Slipping idler wheel on a Garrard 209 Very common problem with all vintage Garrard autochangers. I have tried every trick in the book. Some appear to solve the problem but soon return to the slip mode. BSR idler wheels are of much better construction and it is extremely rare to find one that has hardened and become useless. They must have used a very high quality rubber. John.

6th Dec 2019, 10:21 pm	#14
Goldieoldie Octode Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Petersfield, Hampshire, UK. Posts: 1,043	Re: Slipping idler wheel on a Garrard 209 There was a product sold to rejuvenate the rubber rollers in commercial printers . Sorry can't remember the name but I believe some people reported success on using on Idler wheels Cheers Pete

7th Dec 2019, 8:31 am	#15
Argus25 No Longer a Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Maroochydore, Queensland, Australia. Posts: 2,679	Re: Slipping idler wheel on a Garrard 209 All this talk about rejuvinating rubber made me very nostalgic about carbon-tet, which is the only chemical I ever found that would do it. So I decided to buy this vintage glass bottle. All I have to do now is find some actual carbon-tet to put in it ! Attached Thumbnails

7th Dec 2019, 9:20 am	#16
sparkymike Octode Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Colchester, Essex, UK. Posts: 1,076	Re: Slipping idler wheel on a Garrard 209 Using the plasti -dip is quite easy. Just rotate the wheel in the liquid to depth of the rubber and then hang it over an old tin so that the excess can drip off. If that it not enough then a further coating may be applied. Dents or chunks out of the wheels can be built up in stages, but not in one go, unless very shallow. Mike.