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Old 15th Aug 2018, 9:56 pm   #66
G0HZU_JMR
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, UK.
Posts: 3,077
Default Re: Back terminated cable?

I guess it depends on the layout and the package/quality/parasitics of the resistors. Also the value of the resistors can be significant too. Large value resistors can be problematic if you want lots of bandwidth because the parasitics dominate at high frequencies.... but you presumably only need to go to a few hundred MHz for the Tek scope.

Maybe my little resistive probe deserves it own thread if only to warn anyone (again) that it really does rely on the integrity of the 50R cable and the 50R termination at the other end.

If it was built using BNC connectors and maybe 1 metre of cheapo/ebay RG58 cable and fed to something like a Rigol DSA815 spectrum analyser then it wouldn't matter how much design effort went into the comp cap because the whole probe system would be riddled with mismatch uncertainty. So I'd expect to see disappointment and frustration on the part of the user if they tried this. The Rigol could easily have an input VSWR >1.5:1 and with the cheapo cable inline the VSWR looking into the cable with the Rigol at the far end could easily go above 2:1 by 1.5GHz. But that is just a guess as I've never used the Rigol analyser.

But the problem here is trying to minimise mismatch uncertainty from a 1500R resistor driving a low cost cable and analyser combo that could easily look like a VSWR of 2:1 that does a few laps of the smith chart. So you could expect to see a LOT of confusing ripple (maybe several dB) and the probe would probably be abandoned as a waste of time.

By using an SMA end launcher to make the probe tip it's possible to fit a (low VSWR) coaxial SMA 10dB attenuator right at the probe tip and minimise the mismatch uncertainty caused by cheaper cable and a poor load at the far end. That would help a bit in the case of the Rigol setup. I could post up plots of how mine works on a VNA if that helps but you have to bear in mind that I think an identical probe used with a cable and analyser that has poor VSWR will result in hugely different results because of the difference in mismatch uncertainty in the overall system. With a poor setup, it's really easy to throw away RF performance up in the VHF/UHF region even on something as 'simple' as an RF probe made from a resistor and an SMD cap
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Regards, Jeremy G0HZU

Last edited by G0HZU_JMR; 15th Aug 2018 at 10:06 pm.
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