European voltage in the UK?
 

Hi guys, bit of a daft question but not entirely sure. I have bought a lovely italian espresso machine from the 70s. Obviously as it's from italy, it's 220v, so i was wondering if it is safe and ok to use it in the UK without buying a transformer?

Re: European voltage in the UK?
 

It should be fine.

It will heat up quicker on our higher voltage (the current will also be higher by the same proportion, so the power will increase by that proportion squared and the time taken to deliver enough energy to reach the boil will decrease similarly); but the thermostat will still operate at the right temperature, so it will not overheat.

A transformer powerful enough to run a coffee maker would not come cheap .....

Re: European voltage in the UK?
 

Thanks! So I suppose everyday use it should be Ok? I was confused because I read that in the 2000s, the eu and UK harmonised their voltages ( or at least attempted to). That's all well and good but this thing is from the 70s. Thanks for the input :)

Just so you know as well it doesn't have a thermostat, just a safety valve apparently. So with that in mind, will the element be in danger of overheating?

Re: European voltage in the UK?
 

I was always that we'd reduced to what I'd considered the EU voltage of 220, but WIKI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_...ity_by_country, deems that we supply at 230- not really a lot higher than 220.

Re: European voltage in the UK?
 

Harmonisation just meant drawing up a spec which all EU countries already met. This has been discussed numerous times in the forums

Re: European voltage in the UK?
 

We've covered this before, but basically nothing changed except the tolerances allowed. It was 240 +/- 6%, now it's 230 +10% -6%, which covers the same range.
Vintage equipment still needs to be set to the correct voltage, but modern equipment should be designed to cover the whole range.

Re: European voltage in the UK?
 

If it is rated at 3kW @220v, you may have problems with 13a fuses in UK plugs failing after a time due to the 10% + overload. Be careful to use a good plug in a good socket otherwise they may get hot.

Re: European voltage in the UK?
 

I recall a table of world mains voltages in a late 1960's edition of the ITT Reference Data For Radio Engineers saying that Italy used a range of mains voltages up to 270V as well as the more usual 220V.

Re: European voltage in the UK?
 

Most of mainland Europe used to be 220 volts nominal, with a tolerance that varied fron one country to another, but was often as wide as 10% either way, so could be from 198 volts up to 242 volts.

The UK used to be 240 volts, plus or minus 6%.

More recently virtually all of Europe including the UK is 230 volts nominal, but the permitted tolerances are asymmetrical and differ in different countries.

Most of mainland Europe is now 230 volts, plus 6% or minus 10%

The UK is now 230 volts, plus 10% or minus 6%.

In practice, most of mainland Europe is still about 220 volts and falls within the lower end of the permitted range, whilst in the UK the voltage tends to be about 240 volts and falls within the upper end of the permitted range.

Unless unduly sensitive, I would expect most 220 volt equipment to operate correctly on a UK supply.

Re: European voltage in the UK?
 

On recent trips to Europe I've measured voltages around 234v so they have in fact changed. One exception was Budapest which was still 220v.

Re: European voltage in the UK?
 

When mains were harmonised, the voltage at my brother-in-law's house in France rose from 220V to 235V. Ours in the UK dropped from 240V to ... 235V. True harmonisation!

Re: European voltage in the UK?
 

Rasing the voltage on the continent would have a good incentive: slightly higher efficiency. I can't see a practical benefit in dropping the voltage in the UK, though. Apart from longer lasting incandescent lighting, that is.

Re: European voltage in the UK?
 

It was simply part of the European Commission project to adopt common standards across the EU. The common EU voltage was quite easy to deliver given flexibility on specifications, and was one of a large number of harmonisation measures adopted in the UK during the last 30 years. Other proposals were completely impractical and quickly dropped (driving on the right, replacement of BS1363 plugs), while yet others were deliverable but dropped after public resistance (serving beer in half litres rather than pints).

Re: European voltage in the UK?
 

I did read somewhere that if anything, Continental mains voltages are tending to rise rather than ours falling, so that accords with earlier posts.

Re: European voltage in the UK?
 

I've just stuck my meter probes in to a socket here in the office in Warsaw (on an old extension cable with no shutters, conveniently) and the mains voltage measures 228V. It was nominally 220V before harmonisation, now is nominally 230V. It's probably fairly stable here - I can see three sets of power station chimneys from the office window, and a line of sizeable pylons (probably at least 66kV but I'm not going to try measuring it!) marches directly past the building.

There are still plenty of 220V-rated appliances in use here, of course. Nobody worries about it. And I've got loads of nominally 240V kit which just works. I've never had a problem.

Chris

Re: European voltage in the UK?
 

All European appliances are now designed for 230v and optimal performance is achieved when the supply is close to that figure - I well remember the pain in the butt caused by grey imports from GB into Ireland of heated/pumped wall mounted shower units which performed dismally on the then standard 220v - people couldn't understand why their neighbour's shower, which looked identical, performed so much better - it would as it was sourced locally and so the heater was designed for 220v

Re: European voltage in the UK?
 

Have any European countries mains voltages actually permanently changed? Although tolerances have been tweaked so everywhere meets them, and despite various measurements suggesting a change, surely changing national voltages would be a large undertaking. Unless it's just a matter of changing some tappings on each substation, which I suspect it's not!

I could measure my mains voltage some days and think: "Ah, yes. Down to Europe's 230V!" On other days or times it could be back to 245V...

Re: European voltage in the UK?
 

Actually changing transformer tappings throughout a country would be a huge undertaking, and I doubt that it will happen.
However the reports of increased voltages in mainland Europe suggest that it may be happening in some places.
Perhaps new transformers are being set to 240 volts at the transformer, to achieve about 230 on average at the load.

Of course an adjustment could be made over a very large area by leaving the local transformers alone, but slightly increasing the high voltage transmission voltage. Increasing the nominal 66KV up to 69KV would do it, presuming that all the downstream transformers will be happy with an input about 4.5% high.

In the UK, transformers are normally set at about 250 volts, so as to achieve about 240 on average at the customer. The nearest customer would get about 250 volts and the most distant about 230, with 240 being an average.

In London, no piecemeal voltage increases could be done without a lot of trouble. Many substation transformers are paralleled on the LV side with others nearby. So they can't be altered one at a time.

And even transformers not normally paralleled may be so connected during breakdowns, so the voltages need to match.

Re: European voltage in the UK?
 

I can't speak for other countries but Ireland most definitely made a deliberate and permanent change from 220v nominal to 230v nominal and did not just fiddle with the tolerances
J

Re: European voltage in the UK?
 

In MK, our voltage (on the west side at least) stays within a couple of volts of 240 & seems quite stable.
Mark.