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-   -   The phonetic alphabet and the modern world. (https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=134852)

Biggles 15th Mar 2017 12:48 am

The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
 
Has anyone noticed how the phonetic alphabet appears to be used more and more these days? I say this because at one time, in fact not so very long ago the phonetic alphabet seemed to be almost the exclusive domain of emergency services, military organisations, radio amateurs and the like. Nowadays, it is surprisingly common to find that the person talking to you on the phone from whatever organisation or call centre can rattle through it no problem. I wonder if it is taught as part of the induction process for this type of job?
Alan.

Radio Wrangler 15th Mar 2017 12:59 am

Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
 
Often the stuff information being passed gets typed into a computer and has to have the exact spelling, spaces and case or else links to databases don't work, you get the wrong goods etc. In ye goode olde days there seemed to be more intelligence used and errors were noticed and clarified.

I think the need for phonetics has increased.

I once tried to concoct the world's worst phonetic alphabet

G-for-Gnomon
F-for-Floccinaucinihilipilification
K-for-Knot
N-for-Not

And so on.

I was especially proud of R-for-Repeat - that ought to sow great confusion :-)


David

emeritus 15th Mar 2017 2:28 am

Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
 
I started learning Italian last year. Our tutor told us that, while Italians are generally familiar with the international scheme for external use, for domestic use the phonetic alphabet is mainly based on Italian towns and cities, most of which I had never heard of (A for Ancona etc.). As an exception, Y is for York!

Radio Wrangler 15th Mar 2017 7:52 am

Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
 
The nice thing about phonetic alphabets is there are so many to choose from.

I learned Morse from tapes where a voice read what had just been sent in the old American military phonetics How Nan Tare...

Country names are still often heard on theHF bands

David (Guatamala Madagascar 4 Zanzibar Nicaragua Xanadu)

russell_w_b 15th Mar 2017 9:07 am

Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggles (Post 928214)
Has anyone noticed how the phonetic alphabet appears to be used more and more these days? .

I blame the thirst for quiz shows on the popular TV channels where monetary prizes are on offer for the correct answer to esoteric questions.

And every call-centre I speak to now appears to repeat my post-code in phonetics, which is no bad thing.

mole42uk 15th Mar 2017 9:44 am

Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
 
I've been using phonetics since 1976 when my boss was an ex-sergeant.

I find it amusing when a sales person repeats my "Bravo Sierra Niner" postcode as BS9....

Peter.N. 15th Mar 2017 9:54 am

Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
 
I am familiar with it as a radio ham, but yes, I have noticed its increased use by customer services operators which surprised me initially but it seems to be quite common now.

Peter

emeritus 15th Mar 2017 11:36 am

Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
 
Possibly reflecting the increasing use of personnel whose mother tongue is not English? In most other languages there are certain letters that sound like different letters in English: for example, in German, A is pronounced like R, E like A, I like E, and W like V. One of the first things you are taught when learning a new language, is how to say the alphabet in that language.

ben 15th Mar 2017 11:43 am

Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
 
I think what is being described here is the NATO phonetic alphabet. when I think of 'phonetic alphabet' I imagine this, which I use in my work!

m0cemdave 15th Mar 2017 12:37 pm

Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by emeritus (Post 928296)
Possibly reflecting the increasing use of personnel whose mother tongue is not English? In most other languages there are certain letters that sound like different letters in English: for example, in German, A is pronounced like R, E like A, I like E, and W like V. One of the first things you are taught when learning a new language, is how to say the alphabet in that language.

That is a good reason for its use and a likely explanation.

Following the rise of globalisation and multinational corporations, call centres and software engineers may be located anywhere in the world.
Added to that, widespread international migration means the local workforce (and the customers) can't be guaranteed to use the "standard" pronounciation of a language that is easily understood by native speakers.

russell_w_b 15th Mar 2017 12:43 pm

Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
 
The Phonetic Alphabet is worth it for Ss, Fs, Bs and Vs alone. I propose a 'northern' version.

A = 'Appen
B = By Gum
C = Cracking
E = Eeeee
.....
T = Tripe
W = Whippet
...

paulsherwin 15th Mar 2017 12:54 pm

Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
 
The general public is more aware of the Nato phonetic alphabet because of police procedurals and medical shows on TV, but I think call centre staff are often prompted to confirm things like postcodes and registration numbers using phonetics by their computer systems. They don't have to learn the alphabet themselves (though obviously most soon become familiar with it).

Brigham 15th Mar 2017 2:06 pm

Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
 
It originally became popular among 'aren't-I-clever' types, also known as the 'thirteen-o'clock brigade'.
They were the same people who went around saying 'Ten-Four', like Broderick Crawford.

mole42uk 15th Mar 2017 3:46 pm

Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
 
"Thirteen o'clock brigade? Is that some north-eastern thing?

AFAIK "ten-four" used to be amongst the CB-ers, the ones who gave up when 27MHz became a legal CB frequency.

colly0410 15th Mar 2017 3:51 pm

Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
 
I got beasted for saying "Unicorn" instead of "Uniform" on a regimental net, the Sergeant-Major was not amused, he had no sense of humour...

ColinTheAmpMan1 15th Mar 2017 4:25 pm

Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ben (Post 928298)
I think what is being described here is the NATO phonetic alphabet. when I think of 'phonetic alphabet' I imagine this, which I use in my work!

Ben is quite right. What we are considering is the NATO or International phonetic alphabet. There are others which have been used, such as the American Joint Army/Navy (Able, Baker....) and the Western front slang (from which came ack-emma and pip-emma for a.m. and p.m.)

I work occasionally in Security and have learned the NATO alphabet, but even this has variations, such as "I" normally being "India" but it can be "Indigo". I learned it by working out how car registration-plates would work out while driving around.

Something I have found out the hard way is to not pronounce numerals the US way, often putting an "er" at the end (e.g. niner). This causes confusion sometimes.

There are also some words which should not be used over a radio, due to specific meaning. In military terms, the use of "repeat" is an instruction to artillery to place the next lot of shells in the same place as the last; you can imagine that the use of "repeat" to mean "say that again" could cause many friendly fire casualties. The acceptable phrase is "I say again".

Oh dear, I think I have probably drifted off topic, or "Oscar Tango".

Colin.

Dave Moll 15th Mar 2017 4:41 pm

Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by russell_w_b (Post 928309)
The Phonetic Alphabet is worth it for Ss, Fs, Bs and Vs alone. I propose a 'northern' version.

A = 'Appen
B = By Gum
C = Cracking
E = Eeeee
.....
T = Tripe
W = Whippet
...

Now, that reminds me of the old cockney alphabet that starts:

A for 'orses
B for mutton
C for yerself...

Biggles 15th Mar 2017 6:20 pm

Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
 
I love the regional phonetic alphabets. Now you've got me thinking. I will have to concoct a Geordie version. Regarding radio-speak influenced by films, TV etc. One of my pet hates at work (where you are meant to use "real" radio procedure) is people who say "Roger that", and of course "Over and out" It's not Hill Street Blues, or Black Hawk Down, it's the UK! Apologies for wandering off topic.
Alan.

Phil G4SPZ 15th Mar 2017 8:46 pm

Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
 
I encounter the standard NATO alphabet more frequently when speaking to call centre operators than when in QSOs with other radio hams!

When they ask for my initials and I say "P.N", when they ask "Is that P for Papa, N for November?" I reply "No; P for Philip, N for Nigel..."

I particularly dislike pointless non-NATO alternatives like the ones mentioned earlier, particularly on the amateur bands. They are annoyingly commonly heard on the HF bands and they serve to confuse rather than clarify. That said, I'd love to find the full version of the joke phonetic alphabet that starts "A for 'orses, B for Mutton, C for lookin'..." and includes such other notables as I-falutin', O for the wings of a dove, P for relief, Q for a bus, R for sixpence, T for two, and X for breakfast!

dseymo1 15th Mar 2017 8:58 pm

Re: The phonetic alphabet and the modern world.
 
I frequently use the telephone at work, on a highly multiplexed VOIP network. The voice reproduction at times is explanation enough for why the NATO alphabet is frequently used in call centres.


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