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-   -   Is it a Bush TUG.68 ? (https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=105321)

Stubble 13th Apr 2014 3:25 pm

Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
4 Attachment(s)
Hi all
Could anyone confirm as to whether this is indeed model TUG.68 please?

The set dose not have a back cover so no label other then the one from the tube
(Mullard radiant Screen, long life television tube MW43-69)

Is this a reliable tube or one of the problematic sorts ?

Stubble 13th Apr 2014 3:29 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
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Photos from the back, is certainly look like the chasse from the TUG.68

Peter.N. 13th Apr 2014 3:32 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
I don't remember a TUG 68 but certainly the earlier consoles were of the 'TUG' series. The chassis looks like a TV53 table model.

Peter

Stubble 13th Apr 2014 3:34 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
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The only thing confusing me is on the receiver view from the service information, it doesnít show that big gold can.

Stubble 13th Apr 2014 3:42 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
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Ha, yes the service information covers the TV.63 & TV.66
Plus
The T.67, TUG.68 & 69 also the M.69

mark pirate 13th Apr 2014 11:21 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
If That was the set on ebay, I was the person who informed the seller of it's correct identity, I think it has the back from an Ekco set.
Nice TV, they work well once restored, these sets always seem to have good CRT's. Lots of caps to change, but worth the effort.
Good luck with it.
:beer:
Mark

Peter.N. 14th Apr 2014 11:51 am

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
I cut my TV teeth on this chassis, we were Bush agents and sold many, they were reliable (for the time) especially the tuners as they were permeability tuned. They had a few odd faults but most were straightforward, don't think I ever had a LOPT fail.

Peter

Stubble 14th Apr 2014 4:27 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
Hello Mark
Yes it was an eBay purchase, Hereford which is local for me, cheap too.

The set doses not have a back with it so that’s something to make during the restoration.

Hi Peter
Yes there dose seem to be a lot of caps to change, the chassis is very rusty on the upper sides and I intend to bring it inside for a few weeks to air in the warm before trying for first light.

I’m confused by the big gold can on the top of the receiver, I’m assuming it’s electrolytic which isn’t listed in the service information or shown on the chassis view, no mater I can check it our when the restoration begins. When will that be, I made a new years resolution not to start any new project till the current ones are finished (TV22, 1975 Hotpoint tumble dryer and Hoover 3110 washing machine), yes, what ever springs to mind as I found myself vacuuming it out yesterday, strictly for de-Arachnid treatment I never picked up a screwdriver once.

Cheers chaps for the positive identification :thumbsup:

Lee

mark pirate 15th Apr 2014 10:17 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
I have a Bush T57 in the roundtuit pile, Your chassis looks the same, usually the RF chassis is always rusty in these, nothing a good cleaning won't solve :thumbsup:
I have had mine working, but the cabinet is pretty poor, I will start with the cabinet soon.
:beer:
Mark

HamishBoxer 15th Apr 2014 10:33 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
Back in the early 70,s i remember a Bush console loptx burning a house down.All that was left of the set was a small amount of melted glass and metal.

Failure big time.(Sprotborough Doncaster)

Stubble 18th Apr 2014 5:00 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
5 Attachment(s)
Well I couldnít leave it, just had to have a poke around on a bank holiday weekend. :-D

First whipped out the receiver unit, before and after vacuuming, very rusty indeed.
I can see only 5 waxies that will require changing.

Got a lovely channel selector on this unit.

Stubble 18th Apr 2014 5:10 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
5 Attachment(s)
Main chassis is in much better condition, before and after vacuuming.

Nothing that looks too major jumps out, the mains electrolytic is cooked and a resistor on the tube base is broken.
The EHT unit looks good so all seems very promising.

mark pirate 18th Apr 2014 8:30 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
Be really careful when cleaning around the LOPT, it is all to easy to break the fine wires between the windings and tags.

Why Bush did not use their usual aluminium for both chassis is a mystery, I have never seen an RF chassis that is rust free!

The CRT should be fine, they seem to run forever, although I would be tempted to remove the LOPT and stick it in the airing cupboard for a few weeks, as it looks like your set was stored in very damp conditions for a long time.
:beer:
Mark

Lloyd 1985 18th Apr 2014 11:28 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
Looks a bit rusty!

I like the way the LOPT is mounted on these chassis, take off the 2 top caps to the PL and PY, remove 2 screws and the CRT anode cap and the whole thing comes out!

Lloyd.

jay_oldstuff 22nd Apr 2014 1:19 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
The chassis look no worse than the ones did in my TV62 that had an RF chassis just as rusty as yours and came back to life after recaping.

Jay

Stubble 27th Apr 2014 4:24 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
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Afternoon

Gone thought the resistors on the main deck today, total of 15 are way out of the stated tolerances 2 of which are O/C

21 waxies to change and possibly 7 electrolytic

The rubber wiring to the power socket has perished and requires replacing along with a new fixed mains cable.

Straightened out the tube socket, looks like it has been pushed up against a wall at some point, the contactís all bent and one resistor broken off.

But I have a bigger problem to sort first, measured the resistance readings across the transformers
Sound output is spot on along with the sync and frame output, the line/EHT transformer has a big problem

Continuity on the primary winding but non on the EHT winding, noting reaching the anode of the EY86 at all.

So it needs rewinding before I can go any further and achieve first light, suppose I can turn my attentions to the cabinet in the meanwhile.

Any recommendations for some one who can rewind the EHT unit for me or would any one have a spare one kicking around?
Lee

Heatercathodeshort 27th Apr 2014 8:41 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
Have a very close look at the start of the EHT overwind. This will be connected to the end of the primary winding, the top cap of the line output valve. You will probably discover that the very fine wire has rotted in the sleeving or has been damaged by cleaning. With care you can tin this fine wire and reconnect it with a short length of 5 amp fuse wire and new sleeving. It was a common fault in the 60's. Worth a look but be very carefull! John.

Stubble 27th Apr 2014 9:40 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
4 Attachment(s)
Evening John

Had another look with the magnifier glass, I can see both windings, one slightly thicker gauge wire both seem ok and attached to the tag.

Managed to photo both ends with the glass up to the camera lens.

Just a thought I could de-solder the tag and re-make all three connections, keep the top cap and primary winding on one side of the twin tag and re-sleeve the EHT winding separately and solder onto the other side of that tag, I have nothing to lose by trying. :-/

Heatercathodeshort 29th Apr 2014 6:58 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
You need to check the wires in the actual sleeving. The thinner one is where the problem will be. I have never had a TV50/60 LOPT winding go O/C. J.

Stubble 30th Apr 2014 10:12 am

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
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Good morning chaps

De-soldered the windings from the line output valve top cap tag and gently removed the pair of wires, both where intact within the sleeving. Re-sleeved and re-made the solder joint with the same results, continuity on the primary but nothing on the EHT over winding. >((

Lee
Photographs taken with the use of a light magnifier glass.

boxdoctor 30th Apr 2014 2:19 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
The setting of the mains voltage selector shown in post#2 does not bode well - unless you have altered it yourself :o Tony.

HamishBoxer 30th Apr 2014 2:30 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
Not ideal but not convinced it would take out the overwind.

Heatercathodeshort 30th Apr 2014 3:10 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
This is indeed odd. If the EHT overwind is O/C within the winding it would arc furiously when operating. If it is not arcing the EHT rectifier should still be lit if the line timebase is functional. You do not need the overwind to light the EY86/EY51. I presume you have continuity between the PL81 and PY81 top caps? J.

ekcopyephilips 30th Apr 2014 4:45 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
Hi Stubble

If you want, i have a LOPT from a TV53 which is exactly the same that is yours if you want it. I have done a ringing test on it and it seems to be OK, but never had any power applied. Let me know if you want it.

Mike

Stubble 1st May 2014 10:11 am

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
Hi chaps

I think my next move is to sort out the rubber wire, only four or five cables need changing and fit a new mains cable.

I will then see if the heater chain works and then I will refit the original LOPT and see what happens when I show it some mains and be ready for some fire works. 8-o
What I am hoping for is the time base will start (fingers X) and a line whistle can be heard and the EY86 heater will hopefully come up too with out any drama.

@ekcopyephilips

Hi Mike
I will try the original LOPT first and see what transpires and if it is a dud I would very much like to take your very kind offer up, much appreciated and many thanks, Lee :thumbsup:

Stubble 2nd May 2014 2:08 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
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Stage one of rubber wire replacement, the receiver unit.

I had hoped to re-used the original cotton sleeving to cover the three cables but it was so rotten and kept breaking and tearing so I gave up on that one.

The rubber insulation was in a very poor state, had I shown it some mains it would have ended with a bang for sure.

Next, the same treatment for the main deck.
What is it that degrades the rubber on the upper parts more than those on the under side, I assuming itís the acids in the dust from pollution?

mark pirate 2nd May 2014 3:08 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
The upper deck wiring is usually worse as it is affected by heat, bad storage also plays it's part. I have restored two Bush TV22's, both from 1950.
one was stored in a loft for years, the other was stored in a bedroom, no prizes for guessing which one needed rewiring!
:beer:
Mark

Stubble 3rd May 2014 8:36 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
Bet it was the one in the bed room!!

Stubble 4th May 2014 3:44 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
5 Attachment(s)
Phase two of the rubber wire replacement, main chasses.

As can be seen in the first photo showing this some mains would have been suicide.
I had to think for a while on how to fish the new wires in under the tag board, so I ended up replacing one at a time, soldering the end of the old to the new and gently pulling the new though, worked a treat.

Isolated the original mains connecting pins and drilled a hole in the chasses, fed in new mains cable and grommet, connecting directly to the power switch.

So itís all system go for tomorrow and seeing if first light can be obtained.

Lee :thumbsup:

jay_oldstuff 4th May 2014 6:35 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
Very nice work so far. I tend to use the same method for pulling new wires into position as you described and it does indeed work very well.

Jay

Stubble 5th May 2014 2:00 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
5 Attachment(s)
Good afternoon all,
Both chasses refitted into the cabinet and connected up this morning.

Removed the HT fuse No2 and applied some mains for the heater chain all started to come up but then died out after a few seconds except V5, V8 and V9 power off quick, a bit of head scratching and a revisit to the circuit diagram, ho C38 .05uf had become a dead short, red hot and dripping wax so snipped one end out of circuit.

Reapplied power and all heaters came up nicely, I them left running for five minuets.

HT fuse reinstalled and power reapplied, smoke from the droppers, lovely aroma fills the garage. After what seemed like an age a very faint and I mean faint line whistle which was like a cat being strangled five miles away, the line hold pot did alter the faint pitch of the whistle but it wasnít enough to light the EY86 heater either and no sound from the speaker.

So the recapping of the line output will commence when the order of capacitors arrives hopefully at the end of this week.

Lee

mark pirate 5th May 2014 2:48 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
Looking good :thumbsup:
Thankfully most of the wiring on the set is PVC, or it would take you hours to replace!
My latest set has no rubber wiring to replace, it even produces 5.5Kv EHT.
The bad news is that it uses the HMV 1807 chassis :wall:
:beer:
Mark

Focus Diode 5th May 2014 4:45 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
Brilliant work so far. The EY86 looks as if it's lit up on your photo, but probably a reflection from somewhere else.

Looking forward to hearing more.
Cheers,
Brian

HamishBoxer 5th May 2014 5:20 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
Yes,i agree that EY86 does indeed look to have its heaters working.

Heatercathodeshort 5th May 2014 5:32 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
I think the glow is a reflection. The light can be seen on the 'bell' anode. It should be a bit further forward towards the base end. J.

Stubble 5th May 2014 6:31 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
Hi chaps

The glow is a reflection in the glass envelope of the EY86 most likely from the two rectifier PY82's nearby.

Lee :wave:

Stubble 11th May 2014 2:16 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
Afternoon all,

Had some more time today, fixed the wiring to the speaker which someone had previously butchered (why I just donít now, both had been cut and twisted together) so we now have sound, well I mean humming.

The only two capís I have left in stock at the moment .1 and .01uf have now been fitted into the line time base C20 and C23. Now have a stronger line whistle and the heater is lit in the EY86 but no EHT not a glimmer, no spark no nothing.

Canít run the set long as some of the waxies in the frame time base are bubbling and smouldering.

More soon.
Lee

Stubble 11th May 2014 4:04 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
Couldnít leave it alone, connected the Aurora, selected channel 4 on the set which the Aurora is set too.

Switch on and the test tone can be heard for the first time, interlaced with the humming from all those leaking capís.

Chuffed to bitís with thisÖ;D

HamishBoxer 11th May 2014 4:28 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
Could well come back to the EHT overwind.You would certainly get EY86 heaters being ok if the overwind is faulty.

Heatercathodeshort 12th May 2014 6:43 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
This does not make sense. If the EY86 is lit, there must be EHT at the anode end from the transformer overwind. If not this can only be due to an open circuit/break of some length as small break would result in sparking and smoke due to arc over. How are you checking the DC EHT? You need to short one end of the screwdriver to chassis and bring it very close or actually touch the CRT connector, the metal bit of course. It should crack over but will do no harm. The AC end can be checked by simply dragging a screwdriver tip over the feed end of the EHT overwind [EY86 top cap]. There is no need to earth the screwdriver for this test. Replace all the wax caps in the line oscillator and output stage before delving too deep. Tick them off the circuit as you work as I think there are a couple UNDER the tag boards. I wish I had that chassis on my bench! Interesting symptoms. Regards, John.

Stubble 13th May 2014 9:48 am

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
Hi John

Tested as you describe and nothing, I will have some more time on the weekend, my order of capís and resistors has arrived so all systems go.

Cheers Lee
:wave:

Stubble 17th May 2014 1:27 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
4 Attachment(s)
Afternoon chaps :wave:

Right changed capís C16 and C26 so that all the caps under the tag board done. :wall:

Powered up and still no raster. :angry:

Mike (ekcopyephilips) sent me in the post the replacement LOPT, many thanks Mike. :thumbsup:

The new LOPT spent a few nights in the central heating duct getting nice and warm and driving out any dampness.

I fitted the new LOPT this morning and we have first light, now I need to work on the frame out put. :clap:

Photos of the replacement LOPT and the raster achieved.

John (Heatercathodeshort) if you like I could send the original LOPT for you to have a look at and see if you can find the break in the EHT winding?
PM me your address if you like.

Lee

mark pirate 17th May 2014 1:58 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
Good progress so far, I would check the windings of the blocking tx, this could be causing the frame collapse if you have already replaced the caps in the frame stage.
:beer:
Mark

Stubble 17th May 2014 4:19 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
2 Attachment(s)
Frame output re-capped

Stubble 17th May 2014 5:46 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
3 Attachment(s)
Waxies changed in the receiver, now the frame is locked but the raster is doubled what would be causing this?

Resistors to check next.

Lee

Heatercathodeshort 18th May 2014 1:33 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
You have a PM Lee.

Heatercathodeshort 18th May 2014 7:22 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
The line oscillator is running well off frequency. Replace all the wax caps, check resistor values and replace any that are more than 20% out. [In line osc circuit] Test line discriminator diodes as one may be O/C. Line hold should lock about mid way. J.

Stubble 20th May 2014 9:35 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
2 Attachment(s)
Evening some more progress. ;D

As advised by John I duly checked the resistors in the line oscillator.

Four where out of tolerance and changed.
R31, 32, 39 and the one that made the greatest improvement R35 :thumbsup:

The raster is getting there, out of focus, which I will tackle later; the adjustment leaver is stuck and can be sorted when I strip the cabinet down for refinishing. The implosions glass and the face plate of the tube are thick with dirt which doesnít help..

Frame oscillator and output next.

Focus Diode 20th May 2014 9:46 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
Great progress there. Well done! Won't be long before you'll have a correctly adjusted picture.

Cheers,
Brian

mark pirate 20th May 2014 10:17 pm

Re: Is it a Bush TUG.68 ?
 
You are getting close now:clap:
You just need to sort out the linearity and centre the picture, the focus units always seem to seize up with years of disuse. Remove it from the tube before attempting to free it up!
:beer:
Mark


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