"Converting" 4:3 to 16:9 (Aspect Ratios)
 

I hope that this is the correct place for this. I am trying to find out the correct setting for making sure that a 4:3 picture looks correct in a 16:9 television picture.

In my video editing software (Final Cut Pro) I can adjust the x and y axis of the picture in percentage terms. What exact percentage do I have to put in the x setting to make a 4:3 picture correctly display in a 16:9 basic background as it were? I have tried to look it up and tried to work it out from first principles but failed - at least as far as I can tell - it still looks wrong. It's somewhere around 75% I reckon.

Sorry for this ignorant question...

Re: "Converting" 4:3 to 16:9 (Aspect Ratios)
 

4:3 is the same as 12:9. 12 is three-quarters of 16 so 75% would seem to be correct. Over-scan may need to be taken into account.
Graham

Re: "Converting" 4:3 to 16:9 (Aspect Ratios)
 

It depends what you mean by displaying "correctly". Surely, a widescreen television should be able to detect whether its input is 4:3 or 16:9 and display it accordingly, with several options for fitting the 4:3 picture into the 16:9 screen:
1) display the full 4:3 picture with black areas at the sides (fit to height)
2) crop the top and bottom of the pitcure to fit to width
3) distort the picture by stretching the x-axis (yuch) so that even Twiggy looks obese!

Re: "Converting" 4:3 to 16:9 (Aspect Ratios)
 

I'm not sure what you are trying to do. A 4:3 picture only displays correctly when it is 4:3. If you stretch or compress it the picture will look distorted. Stretching x by 33% will convert 4:3 to 16:9 but then everything will look unnaturally wide. Compressing x to 75% will convert 16:9 to 4:3 but then everything will look very squashed.

Re: "Converting" 4:3 to 16:9 (Aspect Ratios)
 

IMO the only 'right' way to display a 4:3 image on 16:9 screen is for the image to be displayed in its correct aspect, filling the screen from top to bottom and with black borders at the side, as per Dave's option 1 in #3. If I find someone happily watching 4:3 content stretched to 16:9 I honestly have to leave the room, it irritates me so much.

If Mach One could explain which of Dave's three options he is trying to achieve, then maybe we would be better equipped to suggest a method by which to do that.

Re: "Converting" 4:3 to 16:9 (Aspect Ratios)
 

Even the BBC can't get right..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02cjphq

Peter

Re: "Converting" 4:3 to 16:9 (Aspect Ratios)
 

Peter
I find so sad that the BBC can't show their own content properly, it shows just how far engineering standards have fallen.

Re: "Converting" 4:3 to 16:9 (Aspect Ratios)
 

Likewise. Hence the disparaging tone to my description of this option. ;)

Re: "Converting" 4:3 to 16:9 (Aspect Ratios)
 

Yes I "see" what you mean there Peter! There are often threads questioning the image, aiming at getting the ratios "perfect" and I quite understand that.

I sometimes, perhaps unfairly, compare it to the upper realms of Hi Fi but I suppose good engineering always aims at excellence! It's a bit like those who say it's impossible to watch a 405 line image on a big FS set. Me I'll watch anything:shrug:

I once had a friend staying with me who admired my [then] impressive early 32" widescreen set but switched it to 4x3 every time I left the room as that was "better". He liked my log fire as well and said he would get one... but the gas fired version. I said "I don't think you are quite getting this! I have quite a lot of 4x3 material that I watch regularly so you could say that I admire every aspect! Would it be true that in the days of 405 line 4x3 only, the image geometric was usually no problem, compared with drift perhaps?

From the opposite viewpoint, I recall that in those days the frame height collapsed on my square TV leaving an involuntary black band top and bottom. I quite enjoyed this glimpse into a future "cinema screen" experience. The b+w version of The Hunchback of Notre Dame played particularly well. I was disappointed when the engineer turned up [I had to lend him a soldering iron] :D.

Dave W

Re: "Converting" 4:3 to 16:9 (Aspect Ratios)
 

Be aware that quite a few of the cheaper TVs these days actually use a display originally designed for computer-monitor service, whose 'native' resolution is 16:10

Display will always be a negotiation between the actual resolution of the content and the native-resolution of the display. Done properly, rescaling can get you round this - but to do it properly generally requires serious 'horsepower' on the video side - specially when dealing with native-100Hz content.

If you're wanting to watch content originally-generated in a resolution/frame-rate well-off from what your display likes, it makes a lot of sense to reformat it offline rather than trying to watch it in real-time.

Re: "Converting" 4:3 to 16:9 (Aspect Ratios)
 

Surely if you import the picture to your edit software as 7x5 (625) or 6x4 (525) it will remain that way unless you click the button that says something like 'do you wish to change this input resolution to the outgoing resolution' which could be say 19x 10 (16.9) ..your video will be 16.9 but when the old footage comes along it should display it correctly with the black vertical bands etc.


.

Re: "Converting" 4:3 to 16:9 (Aspect Ratios)
 

The standard ratio of computer monitors for last eight or so years is 16:9. Ones with a 16:10 ratio like HP EliteDisplay E243i are normally priced at a premium (but not quite as much a premium as 5:4 displays).

Re: "Converting" 4:3 to 16:9 (Aspect Ratios)
 

I use the "clip top and bottom" for 4:3 to 16:9 method. The only drawback I see is the credits are a bit odd.

Re: "Converting" 4:3 to 16:9 (Aspect Ratios)
 

Wow! Thank you for all those replies! So many things to comment on...

First of all, thank you, llama, for helping me see the wood for the trees as it were. 75% did the trick. All good... I think that I have a reasonably good head for maths but needed to see it more clearly.

Yes, the TV these days might well be able to display the image correctly but only if the signal supplied to it tells it to as it were and if the TV is set to respond to such prompts. I find that here at home I have more success manually adjusting it each time. In this case I am dealing with editing 4:3 images (without such a tell-tale signal) into a 16:9 project / timeline (depending on your terminology).

I also find it immensely trying to watch a picture incorrectly displayed and would rather see the whole thing with black patches on the sides than have the image cropped. But I think that I am in a minority.

I work in TV and displaying a 4:3 picture correctly in a 16:9 frame is important to me. And, although you could argue that engineering standards have slipped, engineers have not been seen as important as they once were and are no longer in charge - haven't been for years. Programme makers / those responsible for the pictures these days are unfortunately not necessarily aware of when it looks wrong or just don't care.

Re: "Converting" 4:3 to 16:9 (Aspect Ratios)
 

No-one mentioned the other conversion that we often see - a bit of both.
One thing that annoys me that that the digital TV system copes with different formats allowing the receiver to decide what to do with the picture - but some broadcasters choose not to use this. When we were using our old 4:3 set I noticed that on some channels old 4:3 content would fill the screen correctly, while on others they did the "bit of both" so you got black borders - but not as big as you would expect due to a little scaling too.

I don't think picture scaling quite equates to the heights of HiFi as with that you need good ears to spot the difference. Get the picture scaling wrong and it looks dreadful to everyone!

Re: "Converting" 4:3 to 16:9 (Aspect Ratios)
 

I've noticed some channels occasionally have a 16:9 picture with a black border all round.

Re: "Converting" 4:3 to 16:9 (Aspect Ratios)
 

Just a couple of days ago I transferred to a newer Virgin Tivo box and was shocked that the default settings caused 4:3 films to be stretched to 16:9. The automatic settings for viewing with correct aspect ratio are available but are rather obscure and demanded some experimenting before I got them to work.

I'm sure that most people will just put up with "fill the screen regardless" not realising that they can change it.

Peter

Re: "Converting" 4:3 to 16:9 (Aspect Ratios)
 

My impression is that most people prefer to see the screen full of a picture without the black bands than see a correctly proportioned picture. I think that we have to accept that, egregious though it is.

Re: "Converting" 4:3 to 16:9 (Aspect Ratios)
 

I can accept that they may prefer it, as long as I don't have to endure it.

Re: "Converting" 4:3 to 16:9 (Aspect Ratios)
 

It's a sad fact that many people can and do tolerate wrongly displayed images. If I stayed in the room it would only be a matter of time before I made a desperate lunge for the remote and started mashing the 'Apect Ratio' button. I wouldn't be able to help myself.

I can see that this might be considered unacceptable behaviour in some circumstances so instead, I politely remove myself from temptation.