Lamp adapter query.
 

Hi,
A friend of mine was given this early Bakelite lamp holder adapter. They are now classed as illegal because the cover can be removed without the use of a tool.
But, is it also illegal because of what it is?
Just wondering.
Cheers, Pete.

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

Illegality depends on the circumstance and the person using. As far as I know you could not be prosecuted for owning or using one. But making it available to a tenant of your property is a no no. Selling one for use is probably against some regulation too.

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

The irony is, of course, that it is only slightly more dangerous to open it to expose its live contacts than to unplug it (or indeed a light bulb) and expose those in the socket.

As to the original question, what it boils down to is whether it is permissible to run something other than a light bulb from a bayonet socket.

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

AFAIK, nothing prohibits private possession or use of these adaptors.

I would however strongly advise against selling them, or supplying them for use by other people.
They are still sold on ebay and by amazon, but that of course does NOT prove that so doing is either safe or legal.
An improved type is made whereby the cover screws on in the usual way, but is then locked into place by a small grub screw, this in theory then needs a tool for removal.

There is IMO still a LIMITED range of legitimate uses for these adaptors, even in the workplace.
About 5 years ago, I used dozens of them to plug Christmas lights into high level decorative light fittings in a shopping centre. No earth needed, minimal load that was in fact LESS than the incandescent lamp removed, and well out of reach.
Such circumstances are fairly limited though, and in general I would avoid such adaptors.

And over 40 years ago, I installed about 100 of these in a large shop ! Though the supply was 110 volts.

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

I have an old wooden one where the cap is secured by two brass woodscrews. But it has no flex grip, so I suppose still wouldn't meet current regs.

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

I believe the legal position is exactly the same as that of unsleeved BS1363 plugs.

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

I think they actually originated not simply as a means of convenience to plug into a light bulb socket, where there weren't enough power sockets, but as a bit of a doge because there were two tariffs with some Electricity Boards - one for power, one for light. As a kid in the 40s and 50s, they abounded everywhere, sometimes with a 'Y' socket and a switch, so that the light bulb could stay in place, and whatever was plugged into the socket could be switched on and off.

As Dave Moll says, bayonet (and E.S.) sockets are probably the least safe items around the home.

I have a neighbour who lives alone and tries to be independent. She'd had a light bulb which went off with a bang and the glassware of the bulb fell onto the floor. She asked if I could help because try as she might, she couldn't get the brass bayonet fitting out of the light socket. When I went to have a look at it, the RCD at the Consumer Unit hadn't tripped and the light switch was still on. She told me she'd been "trying to 'unscrew' the brass bit but couldn't manage it as she didn't think her grip was strong enough". She'd been using a pair of uninsulated pliers, a few millimeters away from the live contact in the socket, attempting to 'unscrew' the remnants of the brass bayonet part of the dud bulb. Without her good luck and good fortune, it could have had a tragic outcome.

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

Just to note, I’m not a lawyer, but I do have some insight into this. I wonder that there has ever been a prosecution for the discovery of an as the OP calls it, illegal fitting, against a consumer. What could happen is that in the event of a third party being harmed or fatally electrocuted, a prosecution could be begun to attempt to probe liability and causation. So it’s not to trivialise the question , just to clarify the circumstances under which it could be become catastrophically serious.

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

While the practice of having different power and lighting tariffs was widespread, it was not universal. The Victorian flat I grew up in still had its original pre-war lighting installation with only the one meter. While there was electric lighting in nearly every room, the only sockets were one 15A in the kitchen and one 5A in the living room. I understand that electrification had been carried out by the old West Ham council at the time when electricity undertakings were the responsibility of local authorities, and that they did it for free. Our neighbour had obviously declined as their flat only had gas lighting until the elderly tenant died circa 1960. It should be recalled that prior to the introduction of the ring main, every wall socket normally had to have its own cable back to its own fuse at the main switch board.

AFAIK the only exceptions were that you could have three 5A sockets from a single 15A fuse if you used 15A cable throughout. Also, unlimited 2A sockets could be connected to the lighting circuit as they were treated as lighting points. The only ones of our relatives who didn't use those 2 way switched BC adapters were an Uncle and Aunt who lived in a post-war pre-fab, because they had at least one 3 pin 5A socket in every room.

So in the days when few people used anything electrical, unless you had enough money to spend on having proper wall sockets installed, plugging into the light socket made economic sense, and in the days when different gauges of proprietary sockets still abounded (2 pin and 3 pin BS546, Wandsworth, Wylex, D&S as well as the current 13A being examples of those I used to come across in various relatives' and friends' houses within a 5 mile radius in the 1950's), the BC adapter provided standardisation. .

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

I don't think it's illegal to own such an adapter or to use one in your own workshop (say).

I am not convinced it's illegal to sell them either. It may well be illegal to claim they are rated for 230V mains. But BC bulbs exist that run on much lower voltages (I've seen 24V ones), and just as you can supply the old-style screw-top Bulgin connectors but have to state that they are only rated for 50V unless inaccessible without the use of a tool, I suspect you could sell BC lampholder plugs stating that they are only to be used below 50V.

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

Regarding post #9 and differing tariffs for lighting and for power, It is an urban myth that people plugged electric irons and other loads into lamp sockets in order to save money.

Electricity for lighting was invariably more expensive than that supplied for power, so running an electric iron from a lamp socket was in fact costing money. It was done in the absence of suitable power sockets.

In the early days, electricity was used almost entirely for lighting. The supply company therefore had to invest a lot of capital in plant that only produced significant revenue between dusk and about midnight.
There was therefore a lot of interest in "building the daylight load" by encouraging the use of electricity for power purposes during the daylight hours.
Such electricity could be produced for little more than the coal cost, with no capital outlay as it used assets already paid for by the lighting load.

It was therefore sold very cheaply, often for half or less of the "lighting" rate.

The gas industry periodically complained about this, considering it to be unfair. "Only GAS is supplied at the same low and uniform rate, to anyone, to use for any purpose" was a popular slogan that indirectly criticised the differing electricity tariffs.

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

That should probably be qualified as mains electricity. If I have remembered correctly what I have heard, I believe that the first commercial use of electricity (from batteries) was to operate the telegraph network.

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

True: "Saving money" on the leccy-bill was never a driver for plugging things into light-sockets; the 1940s/1950s zeitgeist was always more like "there's only one socket in this flat and it's in the living-room and the telly/radio/heater are all plugged into it, so when I want to do the ironing we got an adapter so I can plug the iron into the light socket in the kitchen".

I recall 3-way BC adapters with a pull-cord-switch that controlled the 'straight through' socket [for the lightbulb] so you could leave the thing always powered-on at the wall switch so the kitchen 'accessories' [iron/radio/toaster] had power all the time and the light was controlled by the pull-cord. All this dangled precariously on a bit of rubber/cotton-insulated twisted twin-flex from the ceiling rose.

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

I believe the problem here is the reference made to legalities and under what circumstances the validity of the product for use is acceptable. For example all electrical products are manufactured in accordance with IEC recommendations in conjunction with the applicable national codes of recommendations be they BS/ANSI and so forth. One need not comply fully with such recommendations but must state to what extent under type test conditions.
Similarly, Insurance companies will often if not always mandate compliance with what are fundamental issues that are generally recommendations that are supported by empirical data. Ergo, who has the overall responsibility should any form of legality be challenged?
In general, usage factors and safety are as stated previously and who has responsibility for maintaining that safety. I have only ever come across one item in the last 50 years that was banned. It was a 440V, 3Phase motor starter that had a bistable mechanical latching device that allowed the starter to remain closed if the power was lost at any time. Clearly, the motor would immediately start automatically when the power was reconnected.
For information purposes most of the HV Circuit Breakers used globally from 3300V to 1,000,000V utilise SF6 gas as a dielectric and arc extinguishing medium. Under fault conditions there are arced products for consideration which are generally classified as SF4. This is highly toxic if exposed to any moisture such as sweat on your hands?

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

An electric shaver is probably the item most commonly used with a bayonet plug/adapter.
People who spend too much time at work (like me) will know this!

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

What David said:
Exactly. I remember my Mum had one in the kitchen. The lamp was fitted into the 'straight through' part and the "branch line" off the side was just left open. If she wanted to do some ironing or listen to the radio (Housewives Choice, Workers Playtime or heaven forbid, Mrs. Dale's Diary) it was plugged into the side socket. The kitchen was her domain and woe betide anyone who changed the station on 'her'radio!

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

Plugs for light sockets were quite popular with people living in places like student digs where non-BS1363 sockets were fitted so landlords could control what was allowed to be plugged in.

David

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

A picture is worth a thousand words....

Attachment 157954

I believe 'confiscated' from a bedsit student who used it to bypass the electric meter... back in the late '60's if I recall correctly (my father was the landlord). It still works perfectly.

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

How did it bypass the meter? Was the bedsit a quick conversion job with just the single socket on a slotmeter but lighting on the general house circuit?

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

I think that was exactly it - 2 spare bedrooms in the family house rented out to students, with slot meters on the sockets I believe.

No idea what the wiring was like then, it was an old Victorian 3-story in London, so I assume my father had just metered the socket(s) in each bedroom, and left the lighting as it was. It was in the pre- central heating days, so plug in heaters etc. were much more common, but obviously expensive to run.

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

Yes, it was common practice in bedsits and the like to only meter power sockets and not the lighting.
Sometimes this was done for simplicity, in other cases regulations required non metered lighting to avoid danger when the meter ran out.

Decades ago, I knew the landlord of numerous such properties, and was given the job of fitting 1 amp fuses to lighting circuits to limit misuse of the lamp sockets.

More recently I advised on the wiring of a block of bedsits, the lighting consisted of 2 pin CFLs in pendant holders, with remote ballasts. Almost impossible to obtain significant free electricity.

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

There's a big distinction between British Standards and some regulations, and other regulations like Electricity at Work (1989). The latter has teeth, and prosecutions may result and do so. I'm not saying this as an expert but I had passing familiarity with these sorts of discussions when I worked in an industrial environment a long time ago.

So it's probably overstating things to describe ownership of any domestic object, however it came to be the way it is, as 'illegal' on the basis of its electrical configuration, whatever that may be.

Now, if you mend something for a fee and then the person who commissioned the work, or a third party, is electrocuted through normal use and is injured or dies, then you may be defending a lawsuit, provided the prosecution can prove a) liability and b) causation.

That's why it's a big step to take money for a repair to vintage equipment as a business, rather than saying that it's a hobby for which you cover your costs. That may not be a defence, but there is a clear distinction in terms of what precautions you might choose to take if you were doing such a thing regularly.

It also helps to know these things when you're doing DIY.

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

When I was a student I lived in a room in an old victorian house in N. London with no power sockets at all, only the light. I used an adaptor as in the original post to plug my razor in.
Metering was done by the landlady who seemed to spend all her time watching the meter in the cellar. If I switched the light on before it was dark it took her about ten seconds to run up three flights of stairs to tell me to turn it off. When I rented a TV (also plugged in to the light socket via such an adaptor) she charged me 10p per week for the electricity.

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

My parents had one of these adaptors plugged into the bedroom light. The 'straight-through' one carried the normal lightbulb, the side one carried the electric blanket! There was a pull-cord fitted to this particular adapter so it could be switched off easily. The house they lived in had ceiling roses fitted with old twisted cloth covered wire. After several years of pulling, you can imagine the stress on the old wire.....one night the wire snapped with a loud pop plunging the house into darkness....! I can still see the lampshade on the floor with the length of wire protruding from the bulbholder. They had a cold bed that night!

My brother had to grope his way down to the cellar to fix the fuse....real fusewire with a ceramic holder. No RCD's or breakers in those days!

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

I recall that some of these adaptors had steel side-pins that rusted through over the years, with predictable end result.

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

I had use of the boxroom in our brand new modern semi [1958] but it had no sockets in there at all, so I used a 30's adaptor from the light socket to feed my bench a two amp supply very successfully until I fitted four ring main sockets at the age of 14.

Even the front room had a fixed point electric fire but no sockets. I was very popular when I tapped in a double socket but it was all self interest as I could be on my own with the record player, basking in the heat! I think the bayonet adaptors served an obvious purpose in the early days of house wiring and were quite clever. I don't think there was a high level of fire or injury as people treated things with respect. Now, despite all the H+S etc spin dryers and other white goods are igniting all the time [Grenfell]. The current figures for London, from the Fire Brigade, are shocking [no pun intended].

Dave W

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

I have somewhere an old brass BC lamp holder that is marked "max 660 watts" since AFAIK lamps with a BC cap were not generally available in more than 200 watts, the rating suggests that the makers allowed for plugging in other loads like electric irons.

I have also seen lamp holders marked "5 amps" possibly for the same reason, or perhaps to allow for the use of ELV lamps.
25 volt, 100 watt lamps certainly existed and would of course use about 4 amps.

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

The 5 amp marking likely meant that it was capable of carrying all the current needed to pull the standard size fuse, so whether loaded to the max, or holding a bulb which went short, it wouldn't be damaged.

David

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

I can remember my grandmother plugging her iron into the light socket with one of those!

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

I am wondering if you could sell (or even buy) one these nowadays if it had the appropriate "needs a tool" construction.

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

It would appear that they are still avaiblable (one of many examples) - and they don't appear to require a tool.

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

Brilliant, I wonder if the "no tool" bit is exempt from light fittings, you can merrily poke your finger into a new one.

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

Unless things have changed recently, pendant lampholders don't require a tool either. Presumably the risk is similar - indeed, I've often inadvertantly started to unscrew the cap when attempting to loosen a shade ring.

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

I've got 3 of the Y shaped ones 2 of them with the little string operated switches I've used mine on a little project to make my own Xmas light string using 15 watt pygmy bulbs. I clearly remember my nan plugged her electric blanket into the light socket despite the fact her bedroom had conventional mains sockets right by the bed! Go figure as they say!

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

Ceiling roses can also be unscrewed by hand and I have seen them sold pre-wired to a pendant that also can be unscrewed by hand.
They must count a step ladder as a tool I suppose.

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

With those lamp adaptors, what arrangements were typically made for protective earthing of the connected appliances? I suspect that "back in the day", not all appliances connected in that manner would have been of the Class II type.

Cheers,

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

No earth at all. People were much more careful with electricity and there were few appliances in use. There was also little extraneous earthed metalwork in the home to touch and complete the circuit. The cold water pipe coming in was the earth, that was about it.
Folk got used to "getting a Tingle".

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

Mmmmm! I was born in 1948 when adapters, maybe not quite so many as illustrated were common place in houses that did not possess any socket outlets or power points as they were known.

Even in the late 1960's I encounters many.

This picture took a bit of setting up. All the BC adapters had to be switched on and most were unmarked. With 240V applied the 1930 lamp was too bright for photography but a reduction to 80V produced a fair result.

I await the visit from the plug police to confiscate my treasures.

Just a serious note. I used to sell most of the adapters and two pin plugs shown in the picture. The rep from WELCO ELECTRIC collected all the types that were banned due to the new regulations. They were of course credited to my account. I cannot remember the date, possibly 1980? Regards, John.

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

Hi,
An interesting thread indeed!
Just as an aside, I also have an Edison Screw lamp holder adaptor. It's quite clever in that it has a separate 'collar' that allows the threaded portion to be screwed in without twisting the flex.
I've never seen another one, and assume they're far more common in the USA than here.
Cheers, Pete.

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

The one ES lampholder-adaptor I remember was intriguing in that though it had a straight-through connection to continue to power the bulb, the 'socket' function was actually for a pair of 2-pin 5-amp plugs, which stuck out horizontally, one on each side. That must have made fitting any kind of lampshade rather difficult - at least the usual types to take a BC 'plug' had the sockets angled downwards.

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

I don't think it's even that.
Batten holders are similar, and they are commonly installed at low level, e.g. in cupboards.

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

I agree that it is a compromise.
They are also mounted at low level on mirrors in the dressing rooms at theatres.

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

I first became involved with a girl who later became my wife because she wanted a BC adaptor for her record player and I had some. I had to go and fit it.
That was 52 years ago.

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

I have something similar in my collection, although it has a BC connection for the bulb/lampholder and the 2-pin 5-amp sockets are angled at around 45 degrees.

Regards

Andrew

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

Some of my relatives owned an electrical shop back in the 80's when I was a teenager. I seem to recall that the reason they had to take these off the shelves was because there was a spate of serious fires from people wiring 13A electric fires etc into them, instead of the 5A appliances or Christmas lights that they were intended for.

For the same reason paper lampshades went off the market for a while in the 90's or early 2000's because there was a serious fire (in Torquay, I think?) when somebody used a 40W or 60W rated paper lampshade with a 150W bulb and it predictably caught fire. They seem to be back on the market lately though.

I saw one of the bayonet adaptors in a museum a while back. When stuff from your childhood starts showing up in museums you know it's time to start planning your funeral shindig.

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

That implies that the lighting circuit was incorrectly fused. Cases of electric shock or fires caused by electrical faults are rarely down to a single cause.

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

Fuse? You mean that nail that was inserted because the flimsy bit of wire in the fuseholder kept melting? ;)

Re: Lamp adapter query.
 

Exactly. Incorrectly fused.