Columbia Grafonola with HMV sound box!
 

I have aquired a very nice Columbia Graonola gramophone, however at the end of a record the soundbox jumps back or skids about half an inch back over the record, scratching the record.

I have noticed that the soundbox is an HMV 5a and I’m sure this is incorrect, and may have been fitted in order to get some sound from it.

Would any one know the best place to find the correct soundbox? Or has any one any advice on this issue.

I have attached a few pictures.:)

This has a model number 117a

Re: Columbia Grafonola with HMV sound box!
 

I have had a couple of these over the years and they are very nice. I would be surprised if it was the soundbox at fault - more likely the stop lever. Its at the base of the tonearm and as the arm swings in when the needle gets to the runoff groove it should push the lever and stop the platter spinning. If that's a bit stiff it might well ping the tonearm back into the record.

I'm no expert but Barry is - I expect he will spot this thread and advise any time soon!

Re: Columbia Grafonola with HMV sound box!
 

I agree it'll likely be to do with an auto-stop not working correctly.

There's nothing wrong with that sound box so long as the diaphragm and the rubber rings that hold it in place around its circumference are ok. We can't see it in your picture and it wouldn't cause the problem you're having anyway.

You can't just go out and buy a 'correct' sound box.

Re: Columbia Grafonola with HMV sound box!
 

It's not just the soundbox, the arm has been swapped as well! The 117a would normally have the Columbia plano reflex arm with its 45 degree reflecting bends. The soundbox would be a Columbia no 15.

Re: Columbia Grafonola with HMV sound box!
 

There's a 'monkey metal' problem with some of the Columbia models where the arm swivels at the rear where it goes down to join the internal horn - perhaps why the arm's been changed?

Re: Columbia Grafonola with HMV sound box!
 

If the arm has been replaced the problem might be the mount? (if not the more obvious auto stop). Soundboxes were more or less (!) interchangeable weren't they? Rather like cartridges a bit later.

Re: Columbia Grafonola with HMV sound box!
 

Thanks for the replies. I will certainly look at the tone arm mountings, also the stiff auto stop. Never gave it a thought that the arm may not be original. I can find pictures of the 119a models but not the 117a. They look very similar

Re: Columbia Grafonola with HMV sound box!
 

Here's an internet picture of a 117a, note the plano-reflex arm.

Re: Columbia Grafonola with HMV sound box!
 

I have attached another photo of the tone arm as far to the right as it will go. You see that the needle does not line up with the record spindle. This suggests to me that this is not the correct tone arm, and explains why the needle is damaging the records.

Re: Columbia Grafonola with HMV sound box!
 

Thanks WD40addict, totally the reason why this not working correctly.
Any one have any suggestions!?

Re: Columbia Grafonola with HMV sound box!
 

It should overhang the spindle slightly, I think it's about half an inch, and the arc across the record should be as near as possible to a straight line. When home I can measure the overhang of my 117a, however the arm fitted to yours is clearly too long.

The correct plano-reflex arms do pop up on eBay from time to time, however they were also made in a variety of lengths and you'd need the correct one.

Much ink was used in 'Gramophone' during the twenties by Percy Wilson working out the optimum geometry. Companies like Columbia understood this.

Re: Columbia Grafonola with HMV sound box!
 

It's actually quite hard to measure, but overhang is maybe 1/4" to 3/8". See attached photo.

Re: Columbia Grafonola with HMV sound box!
 

The overhang varies considerably between makes and models, but the widely acceptable position is when the needle either sits on the centre spindle, or about 3/8" in front of it.

Barry

Re: Columbia Grafonola with HMV sound box!
 

I have found a Columbia tone arm on eBay, located in Australia. No bids yet. It’s stated as being 16cm long, so I will check this out before I bid.

It looks identical to the arm on the picture posted by WD40Addict in a earlier post. P&P is £23 but it’s on a no reserve.

Re: Columbia Grafonola with HMV sound box!
 

I don't know if Ken Priestly is still in business? His website appears to have disappeared (but it looks like the hosts have stopped hosting). His email is ken@fonograf.com - a very helpful fellow with lots of bits.

Re: Columbia Grafonola with HMV sound box!
 

Thanks rogDW48 wiigve him a try and will post any positive result

Re: Columbia Grafonola with HMV sound box!
 

Just has a reply from Ken at Fonograph.com. asking for details on the Grafonola turntable, will ask about his web site when he replies

Re: Columbia Grafonola with HMV sound box!
 

Just to let you know there is a "columbia gramophone pick up arm" listed on eBay in the UK. I have no connection with the seller.

Re: Columbia Grafonola with HMV sound box!
 

Thanks, found it although it states 11” overall, and that’s a bit long. However I will ask for the length from centre rear pivot to needle, that may help judge the size better

Re: Columbia Grafonola with HMV sound box!
 

Measuring mine I reckon it should be approx 210mm from pivot centre to tip of needle. Larger machines would have had longer arms.