Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

As best as I can recall it, the last release of new Cassette Hi-Fi Separates came out from Sony and Yamaha in the mid/late 1990s. These were relatively Budget units at the c.£180-250 price point. Even after production ended, these seemed to stay on the shelves for some time until they were eventually discounted off.
Since then I have not been aware of any new market entries....
Given a so-called Cassette Revival, do Members know if any of the volume manufacturers have introduced (or hinted at) any form of new cassette player production?

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

I think there's a Tascam of some stripe available, but it's an inferior product - crude Chinese mechanicals, as the Japanese don't make them any more, and no Dolby, as they don't licence it any more. Used or NOS is the only viable option for a quality machine, I fear.

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

I would expect the patents on Dolby B and C to have expired a long time ago. The only thing Dolby can licence is the use of the name. So someone could make a compatible system even an exact replica, they'd just have to pick their own name.

The whole purpose of patents is to bring inventions out into the public domain. The patent period is a reward, by giving the inventor an open playing field for a limited number of years. In contrast, registered trade marks last as long as someone keeps paying the fees.

David

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

Boldy perhaps!

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

I think it's due mostly to a lack of demand. Most people will only pay for a very cheap cassette player if they're bothered at all.

For quality transfers archivists still need good quality, long lasting decks which will not damage tapes. They're forced to use quality older decks and repair them. Interestingly in the professional Tascam 122 Mk III, a common deck used in quality archival transfers, we can readily buy the special plastic gears which fail in these decks, but only at a very high price for what you get. Again it seems due to the (limited) demand for the gears, by people who can afford to pay.

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

I know you can buy software decoders for Dolby A and B but I've yet to see anything for C, S and SR. On the software that I'm thinking of (Uhe Satin) they're just referred to as A type and B type noise reduction.

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

I've seen newly produced decks with integrated USB sound card, intended for copying tapes directly to a computer. What quality the mechanism is I don't know, as these machines seem fairly cheap it's probably something rather basic.

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

Does that mean someone is making tape heads?

Because otherwise, the whole tape thing ends when the last head wears out. Reel to reel or cassette, that is the end.

Unless the degree of finesse and the gamut of materials in some future 3-D printer allows them to be done as a hobby.

David

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

Yes I guess making tape heads is not for wimps, especially high grade and miniature ones. I get the impression they're made by hand. The cost of materials must be trivial but the techniques of manufacture wouldnt be. Close tolerances. I've thrown out tape machines but kept the tape heads.

A wholesaler of electronic servicing parts over here still sells a few types of generic cassette head.

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

I'm speculating here, but as I understand it, tape ("streamers") is still used for high volume computer backup. So someone is at least making some form of tape heads. Hard disks also use heads of course, but they are vastly different from tape heads, although a lot of the underlying technology and know-how must be the same.

As far as existing heads and stocks thereof go, I feel it's a bit like unopened boxes of tape, it never ceases to amaze me how one can find unopened boxes of magnetic tape over 50 years since it was made, with a bit of luck. Like, when is someone going to open the last box of shrink-wrapped magnetic tape? I think it will be far in the future. Or like just when you think you've seen all the models of tape recorders there ever were, a previously unknown one pops up.

Certainly there must be a finite number of workable tape heads in this world, and the number is certainly going down as we ware down our precious machines, but I still think that there is an unimaginably large number of heads out there and will be for some time.

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

That is interesting, do you have any Make/Model numbers for these ?

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

A google search for 'usb cassette player' (no quotes) will find some.

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

Thank you Tony, I have found loads.

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

Teac still make cassette decks https://www.teac-audio.eu/en/product...00-152362.html

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

Edward!

A lot of cheapos about apparently, Techmoan has done a couple of videos recently on YouTube regarding current tape machines. He makes the point that there’s only one mech available these days, and it’s very much lowest common denominator. Available in stereo or mono, apparently.

Oliver

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

VWestlife on YouTube has done some reviews on newer cassette decks,

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...tlife+cassette

Regards, Alan

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

Apparently there is still music being released solely cassette too, for instance:

https://www.ultravioletlight.blue/pr...J6DTA6Hklpf9L8

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

Yes digital data backup with tape is still big business. Most of us never see it and there are perceptions that "tape is dead" which in this role it isnt. Cost and reliability are the advantages. The disadvantage is slow access so it tends to be used as reliable backup when primary storage fails. Technical advances are still being made I believe.

This article attempts to address some of the "myths" and claims around 80% of modern businesses use tape as part of their backup.

https://www.nakivo.com/blog/debunkin...egular%20basis.

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

The Teac machine in psot #14 boasts "noise reduction to reduce hiss on playback equivalent to Dolby B".
It looks nice, but any recent TEAC products that have visted the workshop have looked great but internally were very poor. I wonder if the name has been sold? TASCAM products are still pretty good as always.

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

Yes but Tascam havent made decent cassette decks for many years. Not that they can be blamed. There's very little demand for them these days.

The remaining two current Tascam cassette decks quote wow and flutter as 0.25% WRMS.

Tascam's flagship 122 MkIII from the mid 90's had a more than 6 times better W & F spec at 0.04% WRMS.

It had a lovely heavy duty direct drive, brushless, fully servo speed controlled capstan motor, and a servo controlled tape back tension system. AFAIK Tascam were the only manufacturer to feature such a servo back tension system in a cassette deck. It sensed the rotational speed of the supply reel and from that inferred the diameter of tape left on the spool and therefore the back tension, which it regulated to constant tension like a pro open reel deck, via a magnetic clutch arrangement.

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

You can imagine many studios are dusting off their old cassette decks now there's some demand for cassettes! Years ago albums would be downmixed to cassettes to hear how they might sound in a car or home stereo. Dave (Eurythmics) Stewart was known for doing this to make sure it sounded right for the average buyer.

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

Well there's more than just the format. There's the whole playback situation for each listener out there which is ultimately out of anyone's centralised control. We cant control how or where people listen to recordings. These days many listen on squeaky mobile phone speakers in mono, or through equally squeaky cheap earbuds. Some claim we can "master" music recordings so they can "sound great" no matter how or where they are played back which of course would be great but is fanciful.

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

Just another observation on availability.

I had a catalogue from www.scottsofstow.co.uk through the post today and that has a number of music systems and cassette players, they all look a bit "cheap and plastic" but someone must be making heads somewhere.

Will

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

Just to say how much I've appreciated all of these responses and links to the "new" TEAC and TASCAM models. Quite tempting......
In the meantime we have our Nak 2, TEAC and (really old) Philips "Black Tulip" machines. And all sounding really good for what they are - some wear of course on the Philips PB head being the exception. No replacement belts ever needed too.

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

When one thinks back to the early '50s when tape deck makers fly-pressed head blanks and hand-wound them on kitchen table top coil winders (available from Proops), it's not beyond the wit of man to remanufacture heads and rewind motors!

The headache is unit cost/economies of scale/demand. Surely it is possible to design a universal hi-fi head that with adaptors and ingenuity can be fitted to most decks? From little acorns grow...

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

I looked at this subject about fifteen or twenty years ago-certainly when cassette machines appeared to have passed their Zenith and I found an article pointing out that many new models were still being produced in the far East to suit the continuing demand out there and [I think] African countries??? I recall being re-assured that decks would be around longer than I'd imagined [given my large cassette archive ]. I wonder what might still be available now... in places like Hong Kong for example?

Dave W

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

There are new ones being made though only one company (as far as i'm aware) is making mechs. They're made by a company in China called Tanashin and iirc their quality leaves a lot to be desired. Usually has the typical DC bias too.

Though it would be nice to seem some higher end ones being made again, but it would be expensive to manufacture what is still a very niche product.

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

That's interesting MDC. I agree that it wouldn't be realistic to manufacture high end machines again. Given the vast output from Hong Kong, mainland China and other counties though, I was really wondering what "New Old Stock" items might be at the back of a Warehouse somewhere:shrug: I suppose capacitor deterioration might could be a problem. I have a number of older items 'daisy chained' so I can conveniently warm them all up up from time to time!

Dave

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

You can still buy this portable radio/cassette. It has been in continuous production since the 1990's as far as I can tell.

https://www.conrad.com/p/panasonic-r...-black-1628579

Not as nice as a classic 1970's Philips N2205, but not too bad either!

Paul

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

Tascam still list the 202

https://www.tascam.eu/en/202mkvii.html

Teac have a couple

https://teac.jp/int/category/full-size

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

I think you'll find they are the same units.

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

Badge engineering is nothing new , but they are still decent and currently available units .

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

Sadly they are not in any way "decent". If you look up the specs you find the W&F is of the order of 0.25% which was worse even than entry level decks of 40-50 years ago....the frequency response is given +/- 6dB to make it sound better than it actually is...and even then wouldn't have graced a mediocre early 80s hi-fi deck.

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

This article is about the revival of cassettes as well as vinyl. You can buy lots of good new turntables so when is someone going to start making good cassette decks again?

https://www.theguardian.com/business...s-covid-record

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

Twelfth of never, unfortunately - the market wouldn't justify the tooling, the high quality oxides won't be made again, and Dolby aren't issuing licences any more, so any new deck can't be equipped with noise reduction. Fortunately, heads seem to have a long life, so refurbishment of existing high quality models is worth while.

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

Dolby's patents will have expired long ago. Feel free to copy the Dolby technology. They don't issue licences because no one would need to buy them. The technology is public domain now.

What still exists is the registered trade mark, so you'd have to call your version something different.

Also, Dolby's literature will still be in copyright, so you can't scan or photograph it, but you can re-draw it. There is a huge imbalance between the periods of protection of patents and of copyright.

A company like Dolby would see the end coming of their exclusive control (=> profit!), so they would want to bring out an enhanced version good enough for everyone to want in preference to the original, and different enough to be patented all over again. A bit like a plate-spinning act.

But I agree, no-one is making cassette type oxide, but that's a milling and screening job after mixing the ingredients, It could still be done. I'm more worried about the tape heads.

David

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

If a human made it, a human can reproduce it, agreed, but the economics are unfortunately against a top-quality revival. For one thing, Dolby has happened on specific chips for decades, so either these would have to be reproduced or discrete implementations for Dolby C onwards developed (the Wireless World Dolby B unit required closely matched FETs, but nothing else unusual). The economics of setting up and running a coating plant imply a large market, too, plus the expertise to maintain quality and consistency in the output. Similar concerns apply to heads and mechanisms. Of course, most of these factors can be eased by mere money, but a larger potential market than that for vinyl would be needed.

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

Some people are still making tapes, recording the masters recently released a new c90 and the American company nac is working on a new tape. The market is very niche and when you think about it why would anyone bother other than for nostalgia purposes when we have modern solid state recording without the worries of w&f and chewed tapes and noise reduction and limited frequency range etc.

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

Surely the only tape used for data backup is DDS, digital, DAT, or even Hi-8, whatever you want to call it. Nowhere near analogue cassette tapes.....

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

The problem with comparing to the vinyl revival is the old case of apples and oranges. Even during the period when vinyl sales were very low, turntable manufacture at all price points never ceased. Numbers manufactured and sold dropped starkly and some manufacturers did get out of the market or cease to exist....but the market never dried up completely and turntables were always available...from cheap to high end.

It's also considerably easier to make a half decent turntable than it is to make a half decent cassette deck. And no half decent cassette deck has been made since the dawn of the 21st century. The Yamaha KX393 was the last hi-fi deck to be made, probably circa 2000 with a few units still on sale in 2004. Since then nothing. The only cassette transport being manufactured is the godawful Tanashin thing which is cheap and reliable but incapable of good performance in terms of wow & flutter. Last year someone (Might have been Tony Villa of "Cassette Comeback") contacted Tanashin about them producing an improved version of their mechanism and they came back with an eye-watering cost and minimum order number. Nevertheless he persevered enough to find out if sufficient people would buy a proposed new cassette recorder with the improved mechanism....and the answer was "no".

Unless someone wins the lottery and decides they want to lose a lot of money on the production of a new cassette deck, it's not happening. In addition to the machanism, who is producing good quality stereo cassette heads? Nobody. The current Teac/Tascam branded machines are as good as it gets now....and they are worse than an entry level Tandy jobby from 1979.

Yamaha, Sony and other companies who used to make great decks no longer have any capacity to do so. You may as well ask Ford to make another run of Sierras. Strangely enough, while in the 80s it was the electronics that were costly....now it's the mechanical parts. A decent performing cassette deck needs high precision parts in a very complicated mechanism. The rest of it....the noise reduction circuits, logic control, any other gizmos is comparatively easy today....but try getting precision machined parts...and no....no 3D printing system comes close to being good enough. There may come a time when 3D printing is sufficient but currently people have tried 3D printing gears and cogs for cassette decks (and cameras for that matter) and found them sorely lacking.


Cassette tape is still being made. The RTM-FOX C60 and C90 are decent type I cassettes which I have tested and personally put somewhere between a typical TDK D and AD. Capture C60 manufactured for Splicit by GreenCorp of Australia is also available, not quite as good but certainly decent enough. NAC of Missouri are working on something they claim will be the best type I ever, though I have to say early examples were comparable to sandpaper. They have since released something which may be improved so "watch this space". I happen to know another former manufacturer of cassette tape is also gearing up to produce it again. So the raw material is there, though you can kiss goodbye to the special brews like Maxell XLII or any type IV. As pointed out already, data and video tape bear little relation to audio tape in that they're not designed for a linear analogue signal at all. indeed for video or data storage a signal which is highly non-linear and which saturates early is preferred. The companies offering data tape would not be in a position to make audio tape any more than you or I.

There are good reasons to use tape though. Last year I rediscovered the joys of the walkman. My Samsung Galaxy S9 has an excellent digital music player of course, but the volume is strictly limited for my safety. Not so the walkman, I can record to tape and actually enjoy the music while I am on the train. The Samsung always seems just a touch too quiet. Especially since I enjoy music with a wide dynamic range. It's also often easier to make home recordings on cassette than on some digital device or a PC. I still record from FM radio and found that the convenience of just recording to cassette (or occasionally reel) beats any digital solution.

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

Tescos actually sell a Walkman style cassette player so there must be some volume producer able to supply large quantities to them , no idea of the quality though.

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

It might be interesting to look at the head in one.

David

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

Dolby moved away from noise reduction and got into surround sound .

One could also buy standalone companders , DBX comes to mind , which were sold as noise reduction units for open reel machines and came in various flavours .

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

This is an interesting thread and it got me wondering...

For someone like me who has recently accepted tape as a fun and interesting format having shied away from it for years, what is the best bet for getting a tape deck that will stand the test of time? I ask as it seems that a brand new deck is not the answer.

I recently bought a nice little 8 track player and am having fun with that listening to pre-recorded tapes. I know that pre-recorded tapes aren't highly regarded, but I don't mind too much.

What I'd be interested in is a "hifi" deck on which I could play tapes and also make recordings from time to time. Sound quality is important but most important would be longevity - so nothing too taxing to service/ replace or suspect parts (I've heard of some gears being prone to crumbling).

I foolishly gave away a nice Sony deck a few years ago to someone on the forum on the basis that I had no interest in cassettes. Oh how times change...

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

Go for a Nak 2, a late model Yamaha or Sony. Teac can look the part but sometimes can dissappoint.

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

You may not want hear this if it's the tapes themselves you want to play with. I have a great many compact tapes, but some were in dodgy condition, mostly the mechanisms, rather than the tape material. So, I bought a DigitalLife Portable Walkman Cassette Audio Tape Player - less than £30 off Amaz... - converts all old compact tapes into MP3 - far more robust, and the recording quality is excellent. Outputs to earphones, flash drive, computer. Now I can play all my old comedy tapes on a little card in the car.

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

It's hard to advise on a used deck unless its been recently well refurbished. Generally "two motor" decks have a more reliable mechanism.Reversing decks are convenient but tend to give more problems.

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

+1 on the Nakamichi Cassette Deck 2.....if it's working...and especially if it has been serviced in the last five years.

Any big brand name deck will be 20+ years old now, often 30+ years but the better made ones are long lived. Belts often need replacing and that can be anything from a 5 minute job to disassembling the mechanism. It might be worth googling models you are thinking of buying to see if there are known issues.

Generally the more bells and whistles, the less reliable. Two motor decks are often more robust. Auto reverse decks and/or decks with lots of flashing lights and features are often less reliable. That said, I've never owned a two motor cassette deck and have four working 90s decks in my possession as well as a walkman.

Some of the most reliable are early 80s "piano key" decks. Often they just need a new belt and off you go...maybe not even requiring a new belt if they've been in use down the years.

Watch out for "it was working when I packed it up in the loft 20 years ago". Mechanical devices need some use.

The newest decks will be the early 21st century Yamahas and possibly Sony were still in the game at the turn of this century. But the late 90s and early 2000's Sony ES decks will fetch a lot of money, as will any Nak which has been serviced.

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

If there's ever a revival of high-quality cassette recording, I'm sure that ease of use will be the impetus behind it. We'll also get the usual analog versus digital bumf, of course.

Re: Are there any cassette machines in current production
 

I just revived about half a dozen hifi cassette decks (vintages: late 1970s to late 1990s) for a little sound art project. I was considering doing a write up of one or two but instead will put some reflections here.

In the late 1990s, shortly before a move abroad, I bought two single direction decks (Dolby B & C, logic control, 2 head, but variable bias). They were used briefly then stored for about 20 years! One Sansui and an Aiwa. When I opened them up a couple of weeks back, both had melted Philips style belts. The Aiwa also had a problem with the rec level pot, which I suspect may have taken a knock. It only passes a signal one one channel unless the knob is pushed in! Apart from a couple of connection problems they revived okay. Belt change was okay, fiddly but do-able in under 30 mins; say 6/10.

I also repaired a Thomson (also sold as Triumph 400) and a Fisher with powered mechanisms. Vintage 1980-ish. On one, the main flat belt kept falling off, on the other it was, unbelievably, still usable. The counter/motion sense belts were past it and the decks kept shutting off. I also needed to lubricate the motor on the Thomson as it seized up after a few hours' use. I think the powered mechs take a bit of a toll on those motors. Belt change a little more awkward, 5/10.

The oldest ones were a Rotel and a Uher. Both piano keys. The Rotel needed considerable work: belts, switch contacts, idler tyres and more disassembly was needed. The Uher had an absurd gearing arrangement which had problems involving split plastic and loose pins. I was going to scrap it but persevered! Both had decent motors. Mech work difficulty rating 3/10 due to added complexity.

There were a few more but will write about those later.

All in all, I would say that:
-The electronics posed few if any problems across the various eras of deck. As anyone who has worked on VCRs will know, most faults are mechanical.
-Although one thinks of the piano key decks as simple, repair is not actually that easy or quick. Motor and capstan bearing lubrication seems to be essential. An array of belts idlers and linkages soon makes for lengthy and complicated work. The 90s models were simpler in this regard but build quality was far below the older ones. Time will tell.

My favourite deck in daily use is an Aiwa F660, vintage circa 1984. New belts and pinch rollers a few years back, and on she goes without a murmur, despite being dual capstan, which can be a nightmare.

To return to the modern day decks mentioned in the thread, as has been said they seem to have those Tanashin mechanisms one usually found in sub-50 pound radio-cassette portables. They fall far short of even the 1990s entry level hi-fi decks I mentioned above, that I bought at under 100 pounds in the late 90s (and even they have small-ish transformers, small Mabuchi motors and lots of plastic in them).

I think the key is someone reviving one of the mechs from a major manufacturer, 90s era which would be a balance between minimum quality /w&F specs, yet more cost-effective than the older designs. Logic control makes for safer tape handling and possiblity of remote control. If demand keeps increasing someone may do it -after all cassettes seem to be selling more year on year. We shall see.