UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum (https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/index.php)
-   Vintage Radio (domestic) (https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=20)
-   -   Hacker Speaker Survey (https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=54231)

mhennessy 17th May 2010 4:21 pm

Hacker Speaker Survey
 
Hi All,

My forum and web searches have been getting me confused, so maybe this will help...

Having just acquired the start of a Hacker collection, I'm curious about the speakers that were used. Specifically, I'm trying to work out if there was a concerted effort on Hacker's part to put different speakers in the VHF Herald and Sovereign II - this is because (a) these are the two main models I have, and (b) I've read lots of comments here about how the Herald is considered to sound better than the Sovereign. My initial observations would agree with this, but having just got my Sovereign going, I've stripped down the Herald - and am wishing I'd held on a while so I could have made detailed comparisons...

Anyway, here goes:

Sovereign II RP25 (27794): Goodmans speaker with a painted grey frame. There are no bolts in the magnet assembly.

VHF Herald RP37A (22003): Elac speaker, also with a grey painted frame. This has a large magnet - probably 3 inches in diameter, and produces much more low bass than the Goodmans above.

Looking at the various pictures on-line, the Goodmans seems to be more popular, and I've seen it fitted to both receivers. I've also seen another Goodmans with has 3 bolt-heads on the rear of the magnet. I've also spotted what looks like a Celestion model.

Don't feel you have to restrict yourselves to these 2 models - I also have a Hunter RP37A with an Elac, although this looks more like the Goodmans (albeit unpainted), and a Mini-Herald with a Goodmans speaker that is very similar to the model fitted to my RP25.

I realise that production shortages/changes, plus in-service replacements could confuse this ;)

Thanks in advance,

Mark

Leon Crampin 17th May 2010 4:54 pm

Re: Hacker Speaker Survey
 
My Hacker:

RP18 Goodmans 'speaker. Grey painted metal frame, plated magnet with 3 brass pozidrive screws in line. Sticky label on magnet.

I use this set with a 4.6 Ahr Li-Poly rechargeable battery which started life as a 22V unit and developed a faulty cell. The defective cell (3V) is now shorted out. Although the audio amplifier board has to be moved to fit this in, these batteries give a very impressive performance.

Thanks for the tip concerning the 5 pin plug.

Leon.

Jonster 17th May 2010 5:06 pm

Re: Hacker Speaker Survey
 
All three Hacker sets I have here - Sovereign RP18 black, Sovereign II RP25 blue (15858) and Herald (AM only) have a Goodmans speaker with a painted grey frame and 3 bolts in the magnet assembly. (Speaker says made in Wembley Middlesex)

Hybrid tellies 17th May 2010 7:07 pm

Re: Hacker Speaker Survey
 
My Hacker Sovereign RP25 mk2 blue has the Goodmans speaker with painted grey frame and three bolts. As above the label says made in England Wembley Middlesex

af024 17th May 2010 7:11 pm

Re: Hacker Speaker Survey
 
What's the non descript silver one? Is this a Goodmans in disguise or something else?

Regards,


Andy

mhennessy 18th May 2010 10:36 am

Re: Hacker Speaker Survey
 
Total so far:
  • Goodmans with no bolts: 1 (My RP25)
  • Goodmans with 3 bolts: 5 (2 in RP18, 2 in RP25, 1 in AM Herald)
  • Celestion: none so far
  • Elac (large magnet): 1 (my VHF Herald)
  • Elac (small magnet): 1 (my Hunter)

Anyone else got a VHF Herald?

mhennessy 18th May 2010 10:49 am

Re: Hacker Speaker Survey
 
2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by af024 (Post 330986)
What's the non descript silver one? Is this a Goodmans in disguise or something else?

Hi Andy - is this the one you have? Could you post a picture?

Which reminds me - here are pictures of my Sovereign II are here: https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...2&postcount=12, and my VHF Herald and Hunter are below:

mhennessy 18th May 2010 11:04 am

Re: Hacker Speaker Survey
 
Just going through the pictures at Simon Spiers excellent site (http://www.hacker-radio.fotopic.net/), where I could make a positive identification:
  • Goodmans with no bolts: 1 (AM Herald RP35
  • Goodmans with 3 bolts: 4 (early RP10, Helsman, RP20 AM Herald, RP18 Sovereign
  • Celestion: 1 (Sovereign RP25)
There were others, but I decided to stick with the 5 by 8 inch models...

This brings the totals up to:
  • Goodmans with no bolts: 2 (My RP25, AM Herald RP35)
  • Goodmans with 3 bolts: 9 (3 in RP18, 2 in RP25, 1 in AM Herald RP20, 1 in Jonsters AM Herald unnumbered, early RP10, Helsman RP36)
  • Celestion: 1 (Sovereign RP25)
  • Elac (large magnet): 1 (my VHF Herald)
  • Elac (small magnet): 1 (my Hunter)

Thanks again - keep them coming :)

af024 18th May 2010 6:17 pm

Re: Hacker Speaker Survey
 
1 Attachment(s)
Here's a piccy. It's from an RP25. It has no name - just 16 ohm written on it. Sounds nice though!

Andy

mhennessy 18th May 2010 7:42 pm

Re: Hacker Speaker Survey
 
Hi Andy,

I reckon that's a Celestion - have a look at the terminal board, I think that's the Celestion logo between the terminals and the magnet. Also, have a look at this picture: http://www.hacker-radio.fotopic.net/p37254870.html

Updated scores:
  • Goodmans with no bolts: 2 (My RP25, AM Herald RP35)
  • Goodmans with 3 bolts: 9 (3 in RP18, 2 in RP25, 1 in AM Herald RP30, 1 in Jonsters AM Herald unnumbered - probably RP30, early RP10, Helsman RP36)
  • Celestion: 2 (both Sovereign RP25)
  • Elac (large magnet): 1 (my VHF Herald)
  • Elac (small magnet): 1 (my Hunter)
Thanks again :)

af024 18th May 2010 9:17 pm

Re: Hacker Speaker Survey
 
Ah yes, so it is. Fancy sneaking the name in there!

Cheers,


Andy

Top Cap 18th May 2010 11:34 pm

Re: Hacker Speaker Survey
 
My VHF Herald has a Grey Goodmans speaker, no bolts and carries a silver disc label "Made in England - Goodmans Loudspeakers Ltd".

mhennessy 20th May 2010 12:14 am

Re: Hacker Speaker Survey
 
Thanks, that sounds like the speaker in my RP25. Another for the total - also, I've trawled the images in the Hacker Radio Yahoo group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hackerradiogroup/), plus I've found a few more images on the forum. The amended the scores are as follows:
  • Goodmans with no bolts: 6 (My RP25, AM Herald RP35, 2 in VHF Herald RP37A, Helsman RP36, Hunter RP36)
  • Goodmans with 3 bolts: 15 (6 in RP18, 4 in RP25, 1 in AM Herald RP30, 1 in Jonster's AM Herald unnumbered - probably RP30, early RP10, Helsman RP36, Marine Herald RP32)
  • Celestion (silver frame): 3 (VHF Herald RP37A, 2 in Sovereign RP25)
  • Celestion (black frame): 3 (2 in Sovereign RP25B, VHF Herald RP37A)
  • Elac (large magnet): 3 (mine + 2 other VHF Herald RP37As)
  • Elac (small magnet): 1 (my Hunter RP38A)
I've also read that RP18s use a 30 ohms speaker, so that's another difference that is worth remembering, but probably complicates my survey unnecessarily at this stage :)

Edit: plus a couple more from www.richardsradios.co.uk

mhennessy 2nd Jun 2010 12:14 pm

Re: Hacker Speaker Survey
 
Hello,

Have just received another entry, the revised scores follow:
  • Goodmans with no bolts: 7 (My RP25, 2 AM Heralds RP35, 2 in VHF Herald RP37A, Helsman RP36, Hunter RP38)
  • Goodmans with 3 bolts: 15 (6 in RP18, 4 in RP25, 1 in AM Herald RP30, 1 in Jonster's AM Herald unnumbered - probably RP30, early RP10, Helsman RP36, Marine Herald RP32)
  • Celestion (silver frame): 3 (VHF Herald RP37A, 2 in Sovereign RP25)
  • Celestion (black frame): 3 (2 in Sovereign RP25B, VHF Herald RP37A)
  • Elac (large magnet): 3 (mine + 2 other VHF Herald RP37As)
  • Elac (small magnet): 1 (my Hunter RP38A)

From the data I'm thinking that we can draw the following (tentative) conclusions:
1. The Goodmans speaker was the "general purpose" model that was used in most models. It is available in two versions: the earlier version had 3 bolts, later ones don't. Check the impedance!

2. The Celestions were only fitted to RP25 Sovereigns and VHF Heralds. Does this suggest the Celestion was considered to be "better", or was it just a question of availability or similar? Until I can hear one, I'll reserve judgement... Later versions had a black chassis.

3. The large magnet Elac was only fitted to VHF Heralds. Again, does this mean it's better? Based on initial tests, I think so, but will report fully once I've put my Herald back together again :)

4. To put this another way, VHF Heralds generally had Elac or Celestion speakers, but Goodmans occasionally appear.

5. Finally, the Elac with the small magnet was only fitted to RP38A Hunters (a bold statement given the sample size of 1!).

We know that the sets are near-identical electrically, yet people report sound quality differences between them. I hope that this data supports my view that the choice of speaker is responsible. But having said that, they all sound pretty damn good :)

Thanks again for your help, and please feel free to continue submitting data.

Mark

merlinmaxwell 21st Jun 2010 3:47 pm

Re: Hacker Speaker Survey
 
RP38A unmarked gold colour, 58HE/146 15(ohm symbol) on the back and 38 written on it in yellow chinagraph.

mhennessy 21st Jun 2010 4:25 pm

Re: Hacker Speaker Survey
 
Thanks - that's the same as my RP38A - the Elac label should be on the side of the magnet near the terminals, but probably fell off sometime in the last 40 years...

Something else I recently realised: the large-magnet Elac is only fitted to the later RP37A. The earlier RP37 models used the T304 FM tuner, which is physically larger than the later T309, and precludes the use of this speaker. The picture I'm looking at now shows a "no bolts Goodmans", and it looks like a tight fit. So, was the Celestion speaker ever fitted to the original RP37?

List now amended in light of new info and a couple more sets coming my way...
  • Goodmans with no bolts: 9 (My RP25, AM Herald RP30*, 2 AM Heralds RP35, Helsman RP36, 2 in VHF Herald RP37, 1 in VHF Herald RP37?**, Hunter RP38)
  • Goodmans with 3 bolts: 15 (6 in RP18, 4 in RP25, 1 in AM Herald RP30, 1 in Jonster's AM Herald unnumbered - probably RP30, early RP10, Helsman RP36, Marine Herald RP32)
  • Celestion (silver frame): 3 (2 in Sovereign RP25, VHF Herald RP37A)
  • Celestion (black frame): 3 (2 in Sovereign RP25B, VHF Herald RP37A)
  • Elac (large magnet): 3 (VHF Herald RP37A)
  • Elac (small magnet): 2 (Hunter RP38A)

* The AM Herald RP30 having a no-bolt Goodmans seems a bit anomalous, but this set is incomplete, and it's possibly not the original speaker. More on that when it arrives...

** Top Cap, is your VHF Herald an RP37 or RP37A?

The emerging pattern is starting to make some sense now. The conclusions can be amended slightly:
  1. The Goodmans speaker was the "general purpose" model that was used in most models. It is available in two versions: the earlier version had 3 bolts, later ones don't, and it's available in at least two impedances.
  2. The Celestions were only fitted to RP25 Sovereigns and VHF Heralds. Later versions had a black chassis.
  3. The large magnet Elac was only fitted to RP37A VHF Heralds.
  4. RP37A VHF Heralds generally had Elac or Celestion speakers, but Goodmans were used for the earlier RP37 (is this exclusively the case?)
  5. Or, the Goodmans speakers were used exclusively until the advent of the T309 tuner (RP25A and RP37A)?
  6. Finally, the Elac with the small magnet was fitted to RP38A Hunters, and probably later models throughout the 1970s.

Thanks again - hopefully this is useful to someone out there :)

Mark

Top Cap 22nd Jun 2010 7:18 pm

Re: Hacker Speaker Survey
 
Hi Mark, my VHF Herald is a RP37 fitted with the T304 Tuner.
Les

mhennessy 22nd Jun 2010 9:10 pm

Re: Hacker Speaker Survey
 
Thanks Les, just as suspected :)

Will include that info next time I update the scores...

Ian E G7OLT 6th Jul 2010 11:08 am

Re: Hacker Speaker Survey
 
Hi Mike,

Here are mine:-

RP18 Ser.00915 (very early). Goodmans, grey frame, metallic magnet (looks cadmium plated and pacified), Silver label, 3 screws.

RP18 Ser 32449. Goodmans, grey frame, metallic magnet (looks cadmium plated and pacified), Silver label, 3 screws.

RP25 Ser 22597. Goodmans, grey frame, metallic magnet, (looks cadmium plated and pacified), Silver label, 3 screws.

RP25 Ser 39794. Celestion, silver frame and magnet.

RP25A Ser 55683. Celestion, silver frame and magnet.

RP25B Ser 91060. Celestion, black frame, silver magnet. (Unusual combination?).

RP35 Ser 25325. Goodmans, grey painted frame and magnet.

RP36 Ser 09527. Goodmans, grey painted frame and magnet.

RP37A Ser 17737. Celestion, silver frame and magnet.

Regards,

Ian

Herald1360 6th Jul 2010 12:04 pm

Re: Hacker Speaker Survey
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian E G7OLT (Post 343415)
cadmium plated and pacified


What a lovely image this conjures up ;)


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:52 pm.

Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2020, Paul Stenning.