Panel Design
 

Hi, I don't know if this is the right place to post a request for information if not perhaps the Mods can move it. The situation is, I need to make 2, possibly 3 new front panels for damaged test equipment. I would like to print it in reverse on OHP film using a laser printer and stick it onto a panel, so that in use the print is protected by the film. As the panels involve dials I need a simple technical drawing program but all the programs I've looked at have an enormous learning curve which seems excessive for just 3 drawings. Something like paint with precise rotation and maybe one or two layers would do. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks, John.

Re: Panel Design
 

I'd like to do the same.
I've always used the silk screen layer of my PCB program and printed onto acetate, but it's very limited. Only one font etc.
It would be nice to find one that doesn't need a degree in computing to understand.

Re: Panel Design
 

The photo viewer that came within Windows 10 in my wife's PC has a rotation facility.

So you could generate in Paint each element that needs rotating. Save as JPG and open in photo viewer to do the rotation.

Copy each element back into a master picture in Paint and print. Maybe use Snipping Tool to assist. Laborious for many elements but straightforward and understandable for a job that's not too complex. And free (well included in the cost of the OS).
Graham

Re: Panel Design
 

There are freeware programmes out there for printing dials and rotary knob scales but I don't know anything about their ability to incorporate text etc. I'm sure Mr. Google is you friend here, as always.

gmb

Re: Panel Design
 

This site has a free panel design program.
It works quite well and you can print through your normal printer.

https://www.frontpanelexpress.com/se...us/?no_cache=1

This is the direct link for the program

https://www.frontpanelexpress.com/fr...gner/the_idea/

J.B.

Re: Panel Design
 

Frontdesigner.

Has been mentioned before.
Not free but not expensive either.

https://www.electronic-software-shop...22&language=en

Demo version available so you can check it out first (some functions disabled in the demo like saving a design).

Re: Panel Design
 

I've used Gimp recently with some success and I'm an absolute idiot when it comes to PC based voodoo. It is very complex but there are a lot of "how to" video's and wikihow articles out there. In the end I got it to work simply by copying and pasting rather than using some of the wizz bang tools.

I used it conjunction with Libre office/draw, to do some drawing and text and used Gimp's more advanced stuff to manipulate other aspects. By combining the two I got the job done, it took a bit of swearing and headbanging though to get there.

I'm afraid there is some learning and faffing about with any PC software, it's either that or use a pencil and paper.

Andy.

Re: Panel Design
 

I've recently printed onto transparent decal paper, and applied to panels with success. Eliminating bubbles when applying to large areas is the difficult thing, and needs practice.

Back in the day I used letraset, but that has gone, or at best in very restricted fonts. And crazy prices when old and dried out sheets appear on auction sites.

Re: Panel Design
 

I use a vintage Microsoft drawing/ photo editing program called Picture It. It is simple. It has many of the functions of Paint, but it's simple and easy to use.It can make .png or .jpg files and has very good size & resolution control. I draw panels and labels for all of my projects this way. The same program is very useful for drawing schematics.It has useful transparency functions for drawing over grids or scans of other objects.

Look at the radio on page 8 of this article, the dial scale was done with this software and printed on a transparent sticker and applied to the dial's metal face:

http://worldphaco.com/uploads/WORLDFETRON.pdf


Picture It was a program that came with Microsoft Works as I recall, but it is available on its own on a disk. The disk was also a free gift with some brands of photo paper. It is independent of any Office or Word license and simply loads and runs on any Windows computer without difficulty. Last time I looked on the usual sites the disk was readily available and is inexpensive. It may be a 15 year old program, but it works great and I have found it better for this sort of dial work than the newer versions of photo editing software like photo studio which have many more complex functions and take longer to learn and run slowly on my older computers.

As another example, all of the moderately complex circuit diagrams in this article were done with Picture It:

http://worldphaco.com/uploads/The_19...o_monitor..pdf

On top of that the same software can be used to draw PCB's:

The PCB shown here is another Picture It image, look on page 10:

http://worldphaco.com/uploads/VOTRAX...TS_HERO_JR.pdf

So this software has multiple uses, dials, schematics & PCB's. Most PCB makers now can file convert jpg and png's into Altium and other so you also don't have to have dedicated PCB software, just be able to draw what you want.

Re: Panel Design
 

Whatever drawing package is used (and Word is quite good, though other programs are more useful for dials, etc.) the problem is getting it to look good on a front panel.

I use a laminator but that's limited to A4 unless you have access to a bigger one. Nevertheless, on equipment with an overlapping/hooded cover (so the panel is recessed) and the sheet's edges are protected, it can look ok.

Ian

Re: Panel Design
 

There are two aspects to this - namely, drawing the panel, and what medium to use to apply the design.

As to drawing the design, most front panels are fairly basic, but most CAD packages ae fairly complex, often with features that go well beyond my needs, so for occasional use, the time that has to be invested in learning how to use the package is disproportionate to the small extent to which (certainly in my case), it will be used. Hence, given my limited CAD skills, I've found that MS 'PAINT' bundled with Windows (for now at any rate), adequately meets my needs and is easy to find my way around. I use it for creating PCB artwork and drawing circuits too, but admittedly, most of what I do is fairly basic.

I've attached a few front panels and other images that I've drawn in PAINT.

As to how to create the panel itself, I've only ever used a laser printed acetate sheet once, which was back in 1978 when I built the PW Robin 'scope. The results, against a a white painted steel front panel were adequate, but laser printers don't seem capable of printing opaque black onto acetates. I covered it in 2.5mm acetate sheet to protect it.

Since then, I've generally printed onto card then encapsulated the card, and fitted a protective 2.5mm acetate sheet in front. Cutting acetate sheet and drilling it can be quite a challenge as well as being time-consuming, but the end results are presentable.

For the last two years or so, I've resorted to creating water-slide transfers (more commonly known as 'decals'), with excellent results. I'd previously assumed that they wouldn't be durable, but I was mistaken. You can get the paper in clear and in white. Unless you're applying the transfer to a panel where you need the colour of the panel to show through in parts, in which case you need clear paper, white paper is better. Having printed the sheet, you need to spray it with clear lacquer to seal the ink or toner and to make it more durable. I usually apply three or four coats allowing maybe an hour between coats.

The last picture below is a resent ink-jet waterslide transfer I've created, printed on white paper for a front panel for an FM/AM converter. The transfers are very durable - I recently applied one that later I wasn't happy with as it wasn't quite positioned exactly as I wanted it. I tried removing it by soaking in hot water - not a chance. I resorted to using 220G wet and dry paper and that was no easy task.

Reading reviews, I get the impression that ink-jet printers produce a better transfer - a lot of the laser printer reviews refer to shortcomings with printers due to the temperature, and apparently copy shops refuse to use it if asked. That said, some reviews are very positive. Much seems to depend on the actual printer and the settings.

Applying water-slide transfers is an acquired skill.

There are other threads where this has been discussed, but basically, having ensured that after soaking the transfer in warm mildly soapy water for a minute or so, you gently try it between thumb and finger to see if it will slide freely off the backing paper. If so, place the transfer, still on its backing paper, where you wish it to be applied, then slowly slide the backing paper from beneath the transfer while smoothing the transfer down in place. Never attempt to slide the transfer off the backing paper - always the backing paper from beneath the transfer, otherwise it will just wrinkle up. Be careful not to stretch or distort the transfer.

To make it a bit easier to adjust the position, I wet the panel first then gently smooth the transfer down with a paper towel.

'Mr Decal Paper' supplies laser decal paper as well as ink jet:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Laser-Print...ustomerReviews

https://www.amazon.co.uk/WHITE-LASER...er+decal+paper

(He also has an e-bay shop).

Hope that helps a bit.

Re: Panel Design
 

You should be able to do this with LibreOffice Draw. It's Free and Open Source, so available everywhere, Windows, Linux and Mac.

Re: Panel Design
 

I have used Corel since the 80's. It is supremely accurate, has hundreds of fonts, and it will do anything you can dream of. For example, text around a semicircle, no problem, rotate a part by 0.001 degrees, no problem, resize an item by +11.985% no problem.

No real limit on drawing size, I am currently working on a 2 page drawing which is 1 metre by 350mm.

It is vector based, so resolution is superb. Even magnified to the maximum of around 406000%, everything remains crystal clear.

Ok, I admit it does have a bit of a learning curve, but there are hundreds of tutorials available for it.

If you want to try the latest version (X8) for free, it can be downloaded from the manufacturers website and used for a month, just to see if you can manage it.


Kevin

Re: Panel Design
 

My son is a graphic designer and would be pleased to help with any designs (for a small payment, depending on complexity) but a good sample, drawing with font type etc, will be required.
If you PM me I will send you his contact info.

Trevor

Re: Panel Design
 

MODS

You might want to move this to "Repair and Restoration Services Offered"

Thanks
Trevor

Re: Panel Design
 

Post 14 copied as requested.

Re: Panel Design
 

David mentioned acetate sheet designed for inkjet printers. On a not so recent project ( light box), I needed some labels for the controls, where the writing could be applied to the rear of the sheet. I simply made individual labels ,using my old favourite -Express PCB in PCB mode. In this it allows you to draw circles etc as with most other text programs, but using the bottom layer, it inverts text ext so that if printed on sheet ,the writing will be visible on the otherside of the sheet, preventing the printed matter being removed by abrasion.

Re: Panel Design
 

Hello,
I have used this new product decal paper with great results from Dr Decal & Mr Hyde Product Range, Australia, Film Free Waterslide Decal Paper for Laser Printers for ceramic and glass, metal

Be sure to view the short youtube video on how its used, you'll be impressed!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8_0EYdzwHU

Only the toner/ink is left on the surface of your project with this new product.

Re: Panel Design
 

That's interesting and worth a try But I'm not sure some of our spray-pained panels will withstand 200C.

Re: Panel Design
 

Apart from the need to use 200C to fix the decal, I don't really see the benefit of a removable film, which leaves just the ink/toner exposed on the surface. Seems odd that it's described as purely decorative - eg, to use on plates to hang on a wall - not to actually be used as plates, and despite the 200C required to fix the transfer, it isn't 'dishwasher safe' where at most, it would have to withstand 100C.

The film of the decal paper from Mr Decal Paper is very thin when slid off the backing paper and applied. It adheres well and is very durable so will withstand constant handling. I'm certainly not knocking the stuff from Oz, which I've on experience of, but I can't see what benefits it confers over and above normal laser/ink jet decal paper, and at first sight, its longer term durability seems questionable.

If the 'opacity' of text when applied to glass was better than that of conventional decal paper, that would be a big plus point, because while dial transfers for say a DAC90A dial look excellent when on their backing paper, when applied to the glass the text is 'wishy washy' and transparent so is no use at all. Fine on a solid painted dial, but hopeless on glass.

If the Oz stuff can print opaque text on a clear transfer, it would be a considerable benefit, but I doubt that it can, given that glass radio dials were invariably screen printed. Maybe someone might give it a go?