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-   -   Threads getting more modern? (https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=192016)

stevehertz 17th Jun 2022 8:26 am

Threads getting more modern?
 
Is it just me, or is the ratio of modern (eg computers etc) to vintage posts (valve radios etc) swelling in favour of 'modern'? Just an observation, not a complaint, but maybe it's an indication of something? Are there any stats?

cmjones01 17th Jun 2022 8:34 am

Re: Threads getting more modern?
 
If it's happening, it's probably a good sign of the forum moving with the times as another generation, with its own memories of and interest in different vintage equipment, joins in. One of the things I like here is the enormous breadth of topics and expertise. Long may it continue.

Chris

paulsherwin 17th Jun 2022 8:45 am

Re: Threads getting more modern?
 
There are certainly no stats about this.

We use a rough rule of thumb of 25 years to define 'vintage', which is now 1997.

People do often ask for computer related help in the MT section, which is only available to members with more than 10 posts. They are more comfortable asking here than going through the rigmarole of joining a specialist computing forum only perhaps to be mocked or insulted.

stevehertz 17th Jun 2022 8:48 am

Re: Threads getting more modern?
 
Chris, that's an obvious conclusion that I very nearly suggested, but I wanted responses to be 'open' and not influenced. So thanks. Another answer is that modern technology - regardless of the age of members - is becoming an inextricably linked part of today's life and brings its own set of problems, faults and questions.

GMB 17th Jun 2022 9:00 am

Re: Threads getting more modern?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stevehertz (Post 1478325)
and brings its own set of problems, faults and questions.

... and especially that there is usually no repair information at all and was not designed to be reapired anyway.

So very often a lot of reverse engineering is required - and thus one hopes someone has already done it, and also that your best chance to save time with many things is to hear the "word on the street" about the typical failure modes in case your problem is just typical.

HamishBoxer 17th Jun 2022 10:28 am

Re: Threads getting more modern?
 
We have a lot of folks very capable of helping with modern technology, let us just be grateful for them.

Valvepower 24th Jun 2022 8:40 am

Re: Threads getting more modern?
 
Hello,

After reading this tread a few days ago I’ve kept thinking about it, and I must agree there is trend towards newer equipment, however I’m finding some of the younger folk who have a liking for vintage [valve] technology is coming into vintage technology via building their own [guitar] audio amplifiers and suchlike or wanting to find out more about vintage [valve] audio equipment. Sadly, valve radios don’t float their boat and don’t have any meaning or appeal to them whereas vintage [valve] audio technology does.

Mind you of late, I find some younger folks have a liking for the late 50’s and 1960’s transistor radios, but I feel it’s more of a mid-century social interest 'thing' than the radio technology itself – for want of a better explanation!

I’m welcoming these younger [audio] folk and help them where I can as they are the new blood and could well be the future of valve and vintage technology. I try hard not to be judgemental on what they are doing and see it as a positive as they are showing interest.

I was talking to one of the young engineers at work (I think he’s in his very early 20’s) and he mentioned germanium transistors, not in relation to 1960’s transistors radios but to guitar effects pedals. I had to readjust my perspective and see it from his perspective and help him out and not start to blame him for the disappearance of the all the germanium transistors! Mind you, I found it’s hard not to slip into ‘oh, yes, I can remember when old school Fuzz Boxes were thruppence and OC71’s could be bought by the bucket load for next to nowt or for the cost of a pint of beer.

The ’age’ thing – for want of the better word – recently come into perspective whilst helping a friend Andy with his Quad 405 and I looked at the original article in Wireless World to brush up on the concept of the Class A, Current Dumper and associated bridge etc., and noted the article dates back to 1975 some 47 years ago, crikey that’s nearly 50 years!, which came as a surprise, it shouldn’t have, but it did. I can remember when it was new and cutting-edge, but now it’s now old technology, although the underlaying feedback theory is still very relevant.

Just my two penn'orth and I don’t want to start any disputes… As Bob Dylan sung The Times They Are a-Changin'

Terry

Radio Wrangler 24th Jun 2022 10:20 am

Re: Threads getting more modern?
 
The 25 year threshold for 'vintage' keeps moving onwards at 12 months per annum.

Things feel vintage the moment there is no commercial service channel :-)

David

stevehertz 24th Jun 2022 11:37 am

Re: Threads getting more modern?
 
I dunno about that David. For example, I keep seeing stuff regarding "vintage TVs" (on here and other vintage sites) and they're discussing large screen, colour, plastic cabinet sets. Till the day I die I'll never see that as 'vintage', 25 year old rule or not! Call me the exception to the rule by all means!

I'm all for a recognised 'cut off' date otherwise it would get silly, but outside of that 'guideline' I reckon we all differ in our perception of 'vintage' and to me, in terms of radios that's the early 60s, although I do love my Grundig Satellit 650 from 1986 (36 years ago). In terms of teles, absolutely nothing colour and maybe up to the late 60s in real wood cabinets. That's just my perception of 'vintage', I'm certainly not looking down upon or suggesting that people do not have a right to get excited about much later stuff - again, each to their own.

To sum up, I think for most people, 'vintage' has it's own meaning and era, no matter what the general opinion or guideline is.

HamishBoxer 24th Jun 2022 12:15 pm

Re: Threads getting more modern?
 
It is not a case of getting excited about modern stuff, more a case of getting help sorting if someone knows the answer.

stevehertz 24th Jun 2022 12:38 pm

Re: Threads getting more modern?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HamishBoxer (Post 1479966)
It is not a case of getting excited about modern stuff, more a case of getting help sorting if someone knows the answer.

Demonstrably lots of people get excited by equipment that's 'modern vintage' (re my last post). Getting help sorting such stuff out is an entirely different matter. Two different things.

Uncle Bulgaria 24th Jun 2022 1:20 pm

Re: Threads getting more modern?
 
As someone on the young end of the forum member age curve, the problem with older valve radios for me is just that there's nothing to listen to. I have a Hacker Mayflower II which sounds marvellous, but for me FM has only Radios 3 & 4 that are at all interesting. My only other valve radio is a Bush SUG61 which is even more limited - R4 longwave for Test Match Special! Without any childhood history of listening to such sets, there's no 'punctum', as Roland Barthes would have it, to spur interest.

I can imagine collecting such radios as display pieces is also limited for the younger generation as so few of us can afford anywhere to put them.

For me valves and the associated circuitry are of interest mainly for the size of the components and the comparative simplicity of the circuits. The parts are big enough to see and manipulate when soldering, and appealingly visual. I can understand why the 'boutique' suppliers make sales despite no data for their claims, when the large and glossy resistors and capacitors they sell hark right back to the showmanship of Victorian mahogany and brass experiments, rather than anonymous black boxes.

For someone with no electronics background, valve audio circuits are about within the grasp of (very) limited theory and self-taught exploration, while radio remains quite esoteric.

stevehertz 24th Jun 2022 1:52 pm

Re: Threads getting more modern?
 
It really does depend on where you live, how good (sensitive/selective) an AM set is, and how good an aerial you have. In truth, even then there's not a great amount of stuff, but certainly enough to be of interest. I can get about five listenable channels on my AM sets. On FM, dozens of stations covering all manner of styles and subjects. But if you only listen to BBC R3 and R4 on FM, then that suggests to me that you have a narrow interest band - pun not intended and no offence meant, just an observation.

To me, a fully qualified though not so great electronics engineer, in a way (and you say UB), valve sets are easier to work on for many reasons; more room, valves easily changeable, large components, no PCBs to unsolder and ruin etc etc. Trannies can be a right pig to work on.

Also, one doesn't need to understand how 'every inch' of a circuit works in order to be able to work on it and fault find. I say just get stuck in and use all your knowledge to weed out the problem(s), many of which are the same type of thing over and over again on most sets, and they're not technical; poor switch and valve contacts, faulty wax & electrolytic caps, poor earths, dirty contacts on tuning caps and so on. Failing that, one can check the voltages on valves using a Trader sheet for reference.

Uncle Bulgaria 24th Jun 2022 3:42 pm

Re: Threads getting more modern?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stevehertz (Post 1479994)
It really does depend on where you live, how good (sensitive/selective) an AM set is, and how good an aerial you have. In truth, even then there's not a great amount of stuff, but certainly enough to be of interest. I can get about five listenable channels on my AM sets. On FM, dozens of stations covering all manner of styles and subjects. But if you only listen to BBC R3 and R4 on FM, then that suggests to me that you have a narrow interest band - pun not intended and no offence meant, just an observation.

I would imagine that is part of the problem - choice is more limited down here on the peninsula. All I can find twiddling the dials is heavily compressed mechanical pop and shouting DJs with endless adverts, rather than exposure to interesting new music. Occasionally I can pick up some distant foreign stations which is quite fun. We're in the middle of a building project, which will include a good aerial so perhaps the situation will improve in the future.

R3's quite satisfying as it has a good blend of classical, jazz, world, intelligent discussion and some cutting-edge experimental unclassifiable stuff late at night. It's a shame R6 is only digital, and I can't get any of the re-established 'pirate' stations I see discussed here sometimes apart from online. Perhaps it's time to look into a pantry transmitter and get more use out of the radio part of the circuits! :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevehertz (Post 1479994)
Also, one doesn't need to understand how 'every inch' of a circuit works in order to be able to work on it and fault find. I say just get stuck in and use all your knowledge to weed out the problem(s), many of which are the same type of thing over and over again on most sets, and they're not technical; poor switch and valve contacts, faulty wax & electrolytic caps, poor earths, dirty contacts on tuning caps and so on. Failing that, one can check the voltages on valves using a Trader sheet for reference.

The forum's friendly members have been such an enormous help in doing this, especially considering I arrived knowing almost nothing except a vague concept of grid control in triodes. I'm now far more confident in doing the kind of fault-finding you describe, and am well pleased with being able to do some repairs self-sufficiently which I couldn't imagine doing a few years ago. I've got neighbours asking me to fix old things now...

Uncle Bulgaria 24th Jun 2022 7:48 pm

Re: Threads getting more modern?
 
I had another thought - perhaps it's the efforts of forum members that mean most of the old stuff's already been repaired, so there'll be another rise in posts about valve equipment in about 50 years time...

Radio Wrangler 24th Jun 2022 7:59 pm

Re: Threads getting more modern?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Bulgaria (Post 1480073)
I had another thought - perhaps it's the efforts of forum members that mean most of the old stuff's already been repaired, so there'll be another rise in posts about valve equipment in about 50 years time...

That got a chuckle.

There is already a significant rate of people getting stuck into restoring a set and finding that various capacitors have already been restuffed... finding when they opened them... to restuff them!

David

agardiner 25th Jun 2022 7:41 am

Re: Threads getting more modern?
 
As someone who still makes his living repairing vintage tech, (just about ;D) I have noticed that there is a section of young people who are developing an interest in vintage tech.

Perhaps on top of the vinyl revival, this is being driving by the desire to 'own' rather than rent, and the fun factor of a piece of equipment instead of an app. Mainly its old radios and hi-fi. My 15 year old grandson says there are a number of people his age in school who now own walkmans, and prefer them to spotify!

Long may it continue I say. Certainly I think today's young generation miss out on the fun we had back then with 'new gadgets and tech'.

Maarten 25th Jun 2022 11:05 am

Re: Threads getting more modern?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stevehertz (Post 1479956)
I dunno about that David. For example, I keep seeing stuff regarding "vintage TVs" (on here and other vintage sites) and they're discussing large screen, colour, plastic cabinet sets. Till the day I die I'll never see that as 'vintage', 25 year old rule or not! Call me the exception to the rule by all means!

I'm all for a recognised 'cut off' date otherwise it would get silly, but outside of that 'guideline' I reckon we all differ in our perception of 'vintage' and to me, in terms of radios that's the early 60s, although I do love my Grundig Satellit 650 from 1986 (36 years ago). In terms of teles, absolutely nothing colour and maybe up to the late 60s in real wood cabinets. That's just my perception of 'vintage', I'm certainly not looking down upon or suggesting that people do not have a right to get excited about much later stuff - again, each to their own.

To sum up, I think for most people, 'vintage' has it's own meaning and era, no matter what the general opinion or guideline is.

It's quite simple, I think. What people regard as vintage is largely dependent on when they were born, a bit dependent on what their field of interest is, and a bit on the pace of technology (one could argue that a 2006 CRT is vintage, even though it's not yet 25 years old).

Cobaltblue 25th Jun 2022 11:32 am

Re: Threads getting more modern?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maarten (Post 1480170)
It's quite simple, I think. What people regard as vintage is largely dependent on when they were born, a bit dependent on what their field of interest is, and a bit on the pace of technology (one could argue that a 2006 CRT is vintage, even though it's not yet 25 years old).

The figure Paul gave as rule of thumb 25years is just that.

We allow all CRT TV's to be classed as "vintage" as well as all Video tape recorders. This is pragmatic and seems to work.

We also get a lot of users try to classify "vintage looking" radios as vintage even though they are still in production. We try to weed those out and put them in Modern Technology. Maybe by around 2045 they will be "vintage":thumbsup:

Cheers

Mike T

agardiner 25th Jun 2022 3:13 pm

Re: Threads getting more modern?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobaltblue (Post 1480178)
We also get a lot of users try to classify "vintage looking" radios as vintage even though they are still in production. We try to weed those out and put them in Modern Technology. Maybe by around 2045 they will be "vintage":thumbsup:

Cheers

Mike T

By 2045 they will be scrap! ;D


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