Auction Prices
 

Thanks to Alvins recent post regarding the TW Gaze auction at Diss, I took an interest in some of the lots.

Being a Quad fan, I looked at a pair of 303's that (from two photos) looked in decent cosmetic condition. I've bought a dozen 303's over the last 5 or 6 years to restore or rebuld and have generally paid between £90 and £130 per unit. They have varied from damaged non workers to very clean examples. All for my own amusement - I don't sell them on.

The price that the units fetched was £280, which to use a valuers term was 'rather full'. Add to this a buyers premium of 22%, plus VAT gives a total cost of £409 or so. If you did not attend there would be a packing and delivery charge of course, rounding it up to possibly £450 for two untested units, which is crazy.

I wonder if people bidding are always aware of the extra premiums and VAT? I know they stress the aspect of buyers premiums on the TV auction programmes, but maybe people get carried away by the atmosphere?

Anyway, good luck to the buyer.

Re: Auction Prices
 

Your figures are not quite right. According to their "advice for buyers":
So I think the correct figure for the £280 hammer price would be £340.48 rather than £409. Admittedly, this may still be expensive, especially if there is delivery to be added.

Re: Auction Prices
 

Thanks, maybe I'm incorrect, but I thought that VAT was levied on on the total price payable.

Re: Auction Prices
 

The miscalculation was to assume there was VAT on the hammer price, which is possible in more commercial sales but unusual in that kind of sale and lots are usually clearly marked in that situation.

Of course there is usually another maybe 5% for use of the online service too.

I think it is true to say that many people forget the extras and just look at the hammer price. I always carefully decide how much I will pay all up and then calculate back to my final hammer price.

Actually I think that sale was one of the cheaper ones! I often see the extras adding up to about 30% in most auctions.

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Generally, VAT is only on the fees.

Auctions have got expensive for audio gear and more often than not for valve equipment. However, if you want some 250 year old Georgian mahogany furniture they are an absolute bargain.

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The Bargain Hunt TV programme deliberately disregards premiums and taxes in order to simplify the concepts for the audience.

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Indeed. The lowest is usually 15%+VAT (18%), but local auction house is 20%+VAT (24%).

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There's usually only VAT on auction house goods when they're sold brand new, it usually says in the catalogue if a lot is subject to the dreaded.

Re: Auction Prices
 

Viciously added tax?

David

Re: Auction Prices
 

VAT = vague additions to the total

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Though probably less vague than the former purchase tax that seemed to be different on each item.

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Last thing I bought at (on-line) auction was some multiple-hand test equipment from Ramco. To the hammer of £232 was added 15% "buyer's premium". Then £18.50 shipping. Then VAT. So the total was £342, or 1.47 times the hammer.

That is entirely typical, and I reckon from multiple experience of on-line auctions on taking the hammer price and multiplying by 1.5 and that is not too far off the mark.

Craig

Re: Auction Prices
 

The counter argument is that the mark-up is the same for all the other bidders, so the mark-up ought to depress the hammer price so that the final price paid comes to the open market value.

Well, that's the theory, but it doesn't seem to work like that.

From the point of view of the ratio of what the seller gets to what the buyer pays, auctions look very inefficient. But then high street stores are supposed to run 100% mark-ups as the norm.

David

Re: Auction Prices
 

I think the moral of the story is to check the terms and conditions of the particular auction before deciding whether to bid (and how much).

As to mark-up in shops, the degree to which antique shops are willing to reduce a price with some strong haggling indicates how much the original price was inflated!

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I always find with auction prices whatever I am interested in obtains stratospheric prices but other items pennys.

Nowhere was this more apparent to me than the famous Luton action sometime in the mid/late 1980's the assets of a vintage radio dealer, lots of very nice 1920's sets.

I made my list of wants after the viewing and a note of my top bid.

As the auction progressed it was clear that I was to get none of my "hit list" but with money burning a hole in my pocket I bid on other lots and you guessed it got them for very little. There were about 6 examples of V2's I pencilled in 2 to bid on they fetched well over £300 each, one I hadn't considered I obtained for £70 and a pair of 1917 Western Electric Transceivers £80, a certain Rupert Loftus Brigham told me they were Battery chargers he spent the rest of his days periodically trying to get me to part with them when he had another look!

Cheers

Mike T

Re: Auction Prices
 

I do find that auction house charges tend to put me off nowadays. I think that it is the buyers premium that is the stinger. You have to factor that in if it is a high value purchase. When I sold my Vitascope clock on flog it, see here https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ight=vitascope I still lost out even though the item made £90 more than I had bought it for as a result of buyers premium and special Flog It reduced commission rates.
Neil

Re: Auction Prices
 

A trade auction with VAT on hammer price means another about 40% to pay, a non-trade and 20-25% commission is usual.

Having just sold many probes do not underestimate the sheer amount of work in setting up and running an auction. I would have said that 20% was a good deal. That they will bother to pack and post doubles the work.

I have bought at auctions for years, and what I have noticed in the last year or so is that prices have soared. Seems the stuff is all going abroad. Would you pay £130 plus 40% for a HP8018A Serial Data Generator? Someone did. I would pay £10-12 for that and would get it, not now. Like the BBC sales, from TV centre to the Cardiff ones, prices have more than doubled so adding the 40% really hurts and who wants analogue TV stuff now? Also be aware that the auction places run the prices up as well, and it isn't illegal, read the T&C carefully.

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Yes bouncing bids off the wall when I catch them at it I leave them hanging by not bidding again and if i was the only bidder they then have to climb down and take back the last bid.
Virtually everyone in the auction knows what just happened.

I virtually never leave written bids for the same reason if I can't attend and I am unable to leave a bid with a friend I know that I am likely to have to pay the written bid amount.

Cheers

Mike T

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The general auctions at farm displenishment sales, when a farmer retires, are an interesting illustration. The items to watch are electronic, and so somewhat on topic.

Electric fence units.

Watch the bidding on these and you'll see people bidding to the point where they could buy a new one (same make and model) down the road at the distributors CHEAPER than the old one, with the croc clips missing, being held aloft.

Amateur radio club auctions are a lot better. Expect about 10% seller premium, no buyer premium and no trade sales. Much more efficient. Prices are friendlier, too. Lothian Radio Society do one twice a year (virus not withstanding) on the south side of Edinburgh.

I enjoyed a trip south for Rob Rustbridge's auction near Preston last year, had a good natter with several of the forum gang including Boater Sam who came over as a rather decent chap. The pasties were as good as advertised, too. AND I came away with a Hacker Helmsman, which I'd always wanted.

I'll stay away from antiques trade type auctions. Too organised, too inefficient.

David

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And this highlights the excellent value at BVWS auctions - with (like the AmRad auctions mentioned above) just a 10% sellers' commission and the buyer pays only the hammer price. Of course, this is made possible because of the time and effort put in free-of-charge by Mike B. and his team. The only down-side for me is that I live such a long way from the auction venues.