Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

Just let me know when and I'm sure we can meet up - give me a few days' notice.

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

I won't be able to do it for a little while. I literally have one side of my house about to subside due to the earth under it being washed out by a burst water pipe. Dealing with the insurance company is a nightmare, every time someone comes out to look at it, all it seems to do is trigger someone else to come to look and I'm getting no closer to getting repairs done. All the while the floors in two of my rooms are slowly collapsing. I'm snowed under truing to deal with this :(

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

Don't worry - the set's going nowhere. You have more important things to deal with. Best of luck.

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

I've been absent frlm here a couple of weeks while other things have gotten on top of me.

But now it seems i have a rather odd new issue with the tv. Or maybe not. It could be the lead? Trying to figure out what's wrong and how to fix it. Not technically a fault i guess.

I have finally received my new ZX Spectrum Next computer. I have set the Next to rgb pal output over the lead (scart socket at output) so it's suitable for all my tv's. On my hdtv it's fine. On the mid-nineties crt tv in the attic it's fine. But on the early 80's tv in my sitting room i get a black screen with faintly visible offset wording from the Next's boot screen. this has confounded me. The tv does not have a scart input, but i input a number of scart devices by different means to convert the signal to rf. I have tried everything with no luck. I've never encountered anything that works in this manner before. There's something about the signal from the Next that for some reason the TV can't understand properly. The black screen is proof there's something there, and if i set the Next to ntsc output it scrolls as you'd expect. But no picture.

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

Have you tried using the VCR channel, Channel 12? This might be worth a go as sync time constants are different.

Ron

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

Yes. Same results

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

I've done a few tests and now know that it's not the vcrs or scart switcher boxes. It's the Spectrum, it's dedicated cable or the tv.

The Spectrum only outputs via Scart in rgb mode, which the tv doesn't support. However I've put rgb through before from other sources, and it results in flickering not loss of image. Also, as the various machines that I've used input scart but output by rf or phono, i would have assumed that they'd convert the rgb to the chosen output format.
They all worked fine when connected to the newer tv in the attic, no loss of picture and sound then.
So somehow, whatever signal is travelling via the switchers isn't (or is barely) getting to the tv. :/

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

I suspect it is as suggested, most VCR's will not convert RGB to composite video. Try connecting to the newer TV's the same way as the old one i.e. via the VCR into the RF input. I suspect you will get the same results. The composite video pin of the SCART will probably be carrying the sync which might be responsible for the image you are seeing. Playing a DVD player or set top box via a VCR will be different because these devices will send composite video as well as RGB. It's been a long time since I've tried anything like this so I stand to be corrected if I'm mistaken.

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

trying to figure a work around for this based on the hypothesis. I'll try plugging it into the attic tv via the vcr to convert the signal, thanks for the suggestion, it's a good test.

As it stands I need to find something that will left the rgb signal from the Next and convert it to RF. I do need a Scart to RF modulator anyway. Do these (or maybe some models of them), recognise the RGB and convert it? I'd expect most would just look for a composite signal, given the output method.

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

Hi to all,

Hello Eidolon, basically you need to go through 2 steps : convert the computer's RGB output to PAL, then use a modulator to put the PAL composite signal to an RF channel.

To the best of my knowledge, no modulator encodes RGB + sync to RF directly.

one of our Radiofil forum members published an extensive listing of all modulators, transcoders, coders, etc. useful for analogue TV standards :

http://retro-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=254575

From the extensive listing, only these two, MIGHT fill your purpose, (translation) :

Transcoder, RVB to UHF modulator, TV standards K and G / H
CGV PHS 60 Export. Adapted for SECAM K and K' + PAL G/H (40 countries).
Thomson MS90-200. Coder + Modulator, PAL B/G/I for Thomson TO7 computer.
VHF and UHF channels.

These products were made in the 80s, therefore obsolete, so findable only on E-Bay or other second hand sales web sites.

Going the 2 way route, RGB to PAL then PAL to RF will give more choice. For example, PAL to RF modulators can be found today very easily & cheaply.

Other forum members can give you useful advice about finding an RGB + Sync to PAL encoder.

Hopes this helps....

Best Regards
jhalphen
Paris/France

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

There's a few pal scart to rf modulators about but it's trying to find a good one.
It's the rgb to pal conversion that's the problem. Not sure what there is available

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

Many DVD recorders had RGB SCART input and composite video output on separate phono sockets. You could use one as a converter. Worth a try if you have one to hand The Panasonic DMR-ES20D DVD recorder even has a built-in modulator, making it a one-box solution to convert RGB SCART to RF, but it's a bit of a clumsy way of doing it.

The Commodore Amiga A520 modulator also converted the RGB signals from the Amiga 500 computer into composite video and RF. Used ones are available. It contained the Motorola MC1377P RGB to PAL/NTSC encoder chip, which was used in other home computers of the era like the Sinclair QL. The MC1377 chip is still available, though if you're thinking of building your own converter it will require some additional components.

VHS machines do not process RGB signals. You won't be able to use one to convert RGB SCART to composite.

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

There was also the modulator/convertor sold for the Amstrad CPC464 computer which I think had it's own power supply built in, though most of the computers sold with either a green or colour monitor, so I expect they would be quite rare now. Again this used the MC1377 chip. I was going to suggest constructing something; there are some circuits available online. But I don't know if the OP would want to try this route, or whether all required components are available (the circuit I looked at required a delay line).

There may be newer IC's that can do the same job. Unfortunately this conversion is not something most people require, so commercial products may not be available.

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

Hi to all,

@Eidolon : I built an NTSC 3.58/USA Modulator many years ago, it's not easy (coils, etc.) a Grid-Dip meter is really handy to build them + you need to master RF circuit board grounding techniques.

I searched for you E-Bay UK/France/Germany using search words such as "PAL encoder", "RGB to PAL coder", etc. didn't find much interesting stuff, some Pro units, bulky and expensive plus of course a bunch of ICs including the ubiquitous MC1377 & more modern chips.

Found though one cheap consumer coder sold by a French guy :
https://www.ebay.fr/itm/CODEUR-PAL-T...-/350258737834

I am quite astonished at the lack of choice, consumer computers & games outputting RGB which needed to connect to a television sets aerial input were galore in the 80s/90s, where did all this stuff go...

Best Regards
jhalphen
Paris/France

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

I think it went away in the late 90s when everyone realised their cheap portables had scart sockets now. Thankfully.

I'd suggest Amiga A520 modulator because those take RGB and give both RF and colour composite, but the word Amiga approximately triples the worth of anything you put it on these days.

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

Ah, the Amiga modulator is a good idea. I have one for my a500 but can't really wreck that one. There is a retro gaming shop not farqfrom me which would probably do one at a reasonable price. I'd essentially need to convert it to rgb scart in, by a bit of wiring modification i guess. Could work out well. However the audio would be an issue. I don't get any sound either when the Next is connected to my tv, and the Amiga modulator might not deal with that problem? The Next outputs it's rgb via a vga connection, which I'm assuming is unconventional? I'd need a cable that would be compatible rgb vga lead the one end, and connected to the relevant ports for the a500 modulator at the other.

My vhs in the case of the sitting room also has a Panasonic vhs/dvd recorder plugged into it. I did try the scart on that too, but had no luck from that.

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

Chopping up your A520 wouldn't be necessary, although doing so is hardly a sin because they're horrible things to see sticking out the back of a 500, which is big enough as it is. I got a 1200 and never looked back.

It'd be easy enough to make a cable that'd work. DB23 connectors are hard to get hold of so most people just cut down a DB25. Amiga video socket has 5v and 12v, of which I'm not sure which the 520 needs, but you can get both voltages from PSUs with 5.25" drive molex connectors (yes that exists). If you're lucky it might be a 5V device in which case any phone charger made in past five or ten years will work. Sound is of course just a matter of plugging it in to the sound hole.

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

I was just coming here to ask about powering the modulator. Whats the best way to test for whT power it needs? There's still the issue of how to get the power into it. Obviously it gets it through the port connector by default.
I need to know which pins accept the rgb in, on the modulator, and out on the Next's vga connector. After that it should just be a case of getting an old scart lead and changing the ends?

Regarding the modulator on the Amiga itself, someone told me once thT it was possible to use the a500+ that i have without it, as the amiga itself apparently outputs rgb. A custom cable with a scart on ghe other end could get around the need to use the modulator at all. That would be a big advantage to me simply because the modulator causes so much inconvenience sticking out the back of the machine in it's manner. Causes real space issues.

My one concern here though is that my vhs/dvd recorder has a scart input that accepts rgb in, and i still don't get any picture or sound via that. Unless it accepts rgb in but doesn't convert it for output. It only does digital out over the rf, so it outputs via a scart into an older vhs machine that converts the singal to rf to send to the tv.

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

@Eidolon :

A Modulator does NOT transform a signal. It takes what is fed in and puts it on a RF carrier as it is.

RGB to composite video is done by an Encoder, PAL, SECAM or NTSC.

These are totally separate and different operations, NO VHS machine, DVD recorder or whatnot will ever convert RGB to composite RF.

Regards
jhalphen

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

Making up a cable would solve this for you, as I said power bricks that do both 5 and 12v are available and we'll rob it from there.

Seems like you're greener than I expected, you need to google for pinouts. "Amiga video pinout" and "vga pinout". Although if the spectrum next works with a scart cable then it's going to have a composite sync pin on there too. Best ask someone who owns one what the pinout of that is.

Yes of course you can, and in fact you should have done a long time ago. The Amiga video socket is RGB like you get on a SCART connector. Commodore wanted you to use one of their very nice proper computer monitors, and so didn't include a modulator inside the computer. The A520 being such a horrible inconvenience and waste of space is intentional, as was it originally being a £75 optional extra. The idea being that people would recognize it was expensive and rubbish and then £275 on a real monitor wouldn't seem so bad.

As a long time Amiga user I don't understand how people ever used the A520, it's so blurry it's almost impossible to read what the programs say. As it is an Amiga RGB SCART cable is about twelve euros online, plus postage.

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

The problem regarding the rgb out from thr Next is that the Next does a lot of things in unusual ways sometimes. I take nothing as standard on it until I've checked through everything in careful detail. The manual isn't overly helpful because it's extremely hard to find things in it, it doesn't have an index and chapters and pages often aren't headed in wording that makes it unclear what it's for. It's pretty much written for those who already into some degree of coding.

If i can wrangle it's rgb out via the Amiga modulator to an rf out to the tv i will be happy. The Next is primarily designed to run on computer monitors via various vga options, but also supports a somewhat compromised hdmi out option, and a form of the original machines SD tv output but only via rgb from a vga socket, which requires a specialist cable to get it to a scart. Unlike previous models in the range there's no rf or composite out, which has proven to be a big headache for me.

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

Scart via VGA is unusual but not totally unheard of and the cable is only 13 quid so there's probably no sync mixer in there.

I would just send an email to the makers asking what the pinout is in SCART mode, failing that buy the cable and buzz it out with a multimeter.

If you can find that bit out yourself I'll draw you a wiring diagram to connect it to an a520 with power :)

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

I have the vga (and minijack for audio) cable, which is useful for the other tv's in thr house. I'd be looking to repurpose an old scart lead for this if possible.

I did speak to the specialist cable maker, but he had no idea about it and the context I'd need a different cable for.

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

There's no possible way a cable maker doesn't know the pinout of a cable he makes.

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

have you tried what it says in the manual regarding the power-up output display resolutions, eg pal/ntsc, line doubler defeat, RGB analogue selection etc

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

There's nothing of a viable output format. Not unless there's a way to convert a suitable vga signal to Pal composite as an alternative way of doing it.

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

@Eidolon,

This gadget converts VGA to PAL or NTSC composite :

https://www.amazon.fr/LEDMOMO-1080P-...ronics&sr=1-96

Found it on Amazon.fr, just lookup the product on Amazon UK

Of course you will need to retrieve the RGB + Sync from whatever connector/pin-out your computer uses & connect to the standard VGA pins which will input the converter.

No ties to Amazon nor seller

Regards
jhalphen

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

What documentation for the spectrum next is publicly available? There's not much on the website at all really.

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

There isn't much unfortunately along these lines. The instruction book contained nothing relating to this, and is written with programmers in mind, for those who aren't already 'jogging', in terms of experience and knowledge along those lines, it's quite confusing and hard to follow, especially as there's no index to help find things. I haven;t updated to the latest version of the operating system that supports other machines such as the Atari 2600 and BBC Micro through Core updating, as it's all a tad confusing for newbies along these lines. plus the Next is still not easily used by me for external reasons at this point. I may as well as wait until I'm in a position to use it a lot before messing about with it in that way. I've also found that while attempting to load from cassette, that both of my computer datacorders haven;t been fixed properly and are running too slow, which doesn't help.

Going back to the TV itself for a minute, I've been told that I have to go back to work at the start of next month, and as such I'm beginning to wonder if we'll be in a situation soon when we might be allowed to travel. As such I cold hopefully pick up that replacement tube as kindly offered by WelshAnorak.
Assuming that the not-so-good technician did short the coils, which I'm pretty sure he did, is it something easy enough to see by eye and undo? Just want to try and ensure all possible issues are dealt with if possible at the time.

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

The quick and dirty way to short the coils was to just solder a jumper wire on the print side of the board leaving the coil in place, the whole thing being a bodge to squeeze the last bit of life out of the tube. You would be able to see this easily.

Obviously it is possible an engineer removed the coils and replaced with a wire link, though this is much more work for something that would probably not have been a paid job (beer money at most).

If you post clear photos of the tube base PCB both sides we should be able to see if the coils are there and if they've been shorted out. I think there were 2 on the main PCB as well. You should be able to trace the connections from the heaters back to the Line Output Transformer, the coils will be along this path. They are only small things, I think they were wound on a small ferrite former.

Funny thing is I don't remember ever doing this bodge on 30AX models, but that was 25 or more years ago and at the time 30AX tubes were easy to get hold of and had a good life.

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

It was a fairly quick job, nothing to that extent. I have a feeling he just 'boosted it to death' as has been said before.

I mentioned the possibility of boosting to the new Technician who will fit the replacement tube when circumstances permit me to collect it, to which he replied "Hi, if he has " boosted" it, it's the same as reactivating, clean/ balancing or rejuvenating it. If that has been done it was because it was low emission at one stage and won't last long. It will be a waste of your time, and mine. I am hoping that that doesn't mean he thinks the new tube won;t be of any use on account of the boosting.

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

If you're talking about the tube I have then it came from a TV that I saw working quite well several years ago when I sold the customer a new flat screen set. As far as I know it's never been boosted, and as it's a K35 is likely to be one of the much improved late production tubes.
When I mentioned the BK, it was just to test it, not do anything else to it, so don't worry.

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

so whatever boosting he did is limited to the tube itself, and it's safe to just fit the replacement without other tinkering in the set? That was only an issue if he'd shorted the coils? Thanks again.

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

Well, it's very possible the coils have been shorted out. Let's have a photo of the CRT base panel, ideally the component side, but the print side will do if you don't want to remove it, also one of the main board to the immediate right of the square hole where the panel is. We should be able to tell if this has been done.

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

Will do when I can move it. Things still a bit piled up due to the repair work on the house at the moment, which is sitting stalled due to the Covid19 Lockdown.

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

Just a heads up to say thanks to everyone regarding the help on this set and my various v2000 machines.
Due to ongoing serious issues with my house and my insurance company, after six months of messing me about, deciding to pull out of the cover with a pack of lies to lay blame for the problems with something else that the insurance doesn't cover, I am now up to my eyeballs trying to deal with this and have had to resort to the Ombudsman. The situation I'm left in is potentially life threatening, so its very serious and taking up most of my time at the moment. This is going to drag on for some time while the company try to wriggle out of this. I just don;t have the energy or time to pursue other things currently. When things are a bit more settled, and the work on the house is finally done, I'll pick up from where I left off, but until then I'm probably unlikely to drop by here other than a very rare few minutes. Thanks everyone, I will be back eventually.

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

If you do drop by please accept my sympathies - and remember there's a tube here for you when all you have to worry about is your old TV.

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

I've jumped in late on this post, have we a duff crt? Plus what chassis is it? K30\35.

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

Yes - it's an early K30 with a very duff A56-540X. I have a resaonable one in a K35 which I've offered to the OP, but for reasons clear in the thread he's been unable to pick it up and make progress. There's also a side order of confusion with connecting equipment to it and also he's unsure how boosted the old CRT has been with the chokes being linked out or, worse, missing.

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

Just a quick pop by, mainly to jot something down before I forget. I had to pop out to the shop today to pick up a Scart coupler, and asked him about what he did to the set. He said 'nothing' :/
That of course contradicts everything. Anyway, he didn't short the coils. I'm pretty sure at the time he said 'boosted' anyway, and was turning things in the back of the set, although he did adjust the overscan as well,, which may have been responsible for that.
Regarding 'boosting', and what's been said here before, is the boosting level something that could be easily detected by looking inside the back of the set? Such a something up at a higher amount than normal? IF boosting is what's killing the tube, I'll need to find a way to turn it back off before the new tube is fitted. Thansk :)

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

Just take a photo of the CRT base and the area of the main circuit board to the right of the CRT's chassis cut out - component side in both cases. Post them, and it's likely we can tell if the coils are still there. I'm sure I can find replacements if they're missing.

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

This has turned up not far from me. Seems to be the same model of set, except that it says 1002 on the front below the channel buttons, which mine doesn't. I don;t know if that has any significance regarding internal differences?

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

1002 is the model number - some have it on the front and some don't. You'd need to be sure the CRT is OK though. Does the TV work? If so, have a look at the picture. If you like it, then you could buy this TV and keep yours for spares.

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

The seller say the following-

-In fullscreen there is a very minor narrow light band at the bottom of the screen, which is not visible when used in conjunction with a digital to analogue set top box (see image of noisy signal and compare with TV signal image).

-The TV is able to produce it’s colour display to the screen BUT the manual tuner has difficulty in keeping the colour signal in sharp focus. I found it holds a sharp greyscale display easily but could not maintain a sharp colour signal. (See images). Someone competent in tuner issues should be able to sort this out.

Thanks for your message. I am no TV expert, but I have described the television in the best detail that I can.
As you can see from the photos, the black-and-white image is sharp and steady. The colour image is present and the colours all match up to the image but it is slightly fuzzy because I cannot get the tuner to lock in this picture and hold it steady. This leads me to believe that the issue is with the tuner. I would have thought that if there was a problem with the cathode-ray then either there would be no colour at all or the colours would not display properly. This is not the case. Therefore, I think that the issue is solely with the tuner, but I am not an expert. I hope that makes sense, please let me know if you have any other questions. Kind regards.

I've had my TV modded to make 4 of the channels video signal friendly. Mine is also cosmetically better. I'd probably be better transerring the tube to mine and keeping the 'new' one for it's parts. Looking at the pictures, I think he's right that it's the tuner on account of the fuzziness in his pictures, but I'm not sure about the bright band at the bottom of the screen that he mentions maybe being a problem?

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

If you do go down that route remember to remove any modifications that were done to boost your existing tube or else the replacement won't last long. The fact the TV apparently displays a good greyscale suggests the CRT is good and may well have been replaced in the set's lifetime.

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

That's part of the concern I have here, I don;t know what to look for regarding the boosting. How to visually tell from the inside what he did. He denies boosting it, but I'm sure I recall him doing it, and it did get it running again properly for a short while before it started dying at a faster rate.

There's someone else not far from that seller who also has one in proper working condition, but wants £200 for it which is way too much. I've tried making him a more reasonable offer, but he's not interested in selling it cheaper.

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

If we'd have had a crystal ball we'd be pretty well off by now!
If you post photos of both sides of the CRT base on your TV then we'll soon know if the coils have been shorted out. If you do buy this TV then you could easily compare the two. Having looked at the listing the fault does appear to be tuner related. However I suspect we're skirting close to forum rules here so I think you'll need to report back as and when you've bought it, then we can resume discussion.

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

I decided to go for broke and offered him £45 for the set which he accepted. Anyway, now it's just a matter of waiting for the lockdown to end and then trying to arrange to collect it. It'll be nice to have a working one again. I want to keep the 'leftovers' for spares, but don't really have anywhere to put it.
I was supposed to have an outside storage unit this year, which was going to be insulated and powered, but thanks to all the problems with the house and Insurance company, it never happened. It could have gone in there safely. Oh well.

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

Thread reopened by request.

Re: Philips 22CS1002/05t TV
 

Thanks for that :)

Yay! I finally have my 'donor tv'. Looking quickly over it, compared to my own, there's a few minor differences, including a number stamped on the colour/brightness opening panel, and a 'made in Britain' sticker on the back.
But mainly, the 'donor set' is in a rather rough cosmetic state, with buttons much more worn down than on mine, and the wood all scratched and worn.

Considering that I can't get a straight answer from the person who originally 'fixed' my set on what he did, I am thinking about how best to try and do this so that the 'hybrid set' works properly when it's put together.

I need the tuner from mine, partially to replace the defective one in the donor set, and party because mine has been modded to have more video channels.
Is it possible to transplant the coils as well as the tube from the donor set into mine?

on a rather different note, I will be needing to have the 'not-so-good' bits rebuilt into a set and stored away in case I need any parts from it at some point. Unfortunately, the only storage option for me is a gap in a cold, and probably little damp, metal storage container. Is there a good way to package/wrap the set so that it's safe from moisture damage?

Thanks for the help :)