The Persistence of Analogue
 

Re: The Persistence of Analogue
 

Enjoyed that; thanks! Just debating which camera for tomorrow's road-trip. 35mm or 6x6? Hmmm...

Re: The Persistence of Analogue
 

Last time I checked, my ears, eyes, nose voice and the nerve endings in my skin were all analogue. Of course analogue will persist, well, as long as the human race does. It might get reduced down to just a final conversion for our senses.

David

Re: The Persistence of Analogue
 

Why not the brain I wonder.

Re: The Persistence of Analogue
 

Little wonder analogue is staying with us, digital costs us time & money.

With the upward trend in energy prices, I also get the feeling people are getting bored of digital, there's a lot to be said for letter writing, board games etc, no waiting for downloads, constant nags about updates or waiting for something to recharge.

On-line is great, take this forum for example, we can exchange knowledge, have a laugh, then arrange to meet at various rallies/fairs, seeing people face to face, proper dialogue & should the occasion permit, perhaps a trip to the pub over a nice drink nattering about your favorite hobby or set. The look on their face over comical moments or milestones (or epic failures) pure analogue, digital can never replace these things, it's not as 'touching'.

Mark

Re: The Persistence of Analogue
 

Some people have indeed got fed up with the great digital count down everything has these days. Switch on a valve amplifier and by the time the CD player digital count down ended the amplifier is just fading in.
Only analogue transistor amplifiers come on immediately.

Re: The Persistence of Analogue
 

My experience with digital for general listening and watching is that it is rubbish! It absolute terms everything is digital, but until they get that resolution it won't be good. In the main it is down to money and what the public will accept :( .

Re: The Persistence of Analogue
 

Aren't most clocks actually digital? So called digital clocks display a count of the number pluses from an oscillator somewhere, mechanical clocks display a count of the number of pulses of the balance wheel, pendulum or whatever. Even an egg timer "increments" individual grains of sand.

Come to think of it, doesn't the brain respond to electrical impulses, either there is one, or there isn't one, 0 or 1 - isn't that the same as digital circuits?

Stuart

Re: The Persistence of Analogue
 

Respond in impulses, yes, to say digital, I would say not. Digital is either one's or zeros, as you say, that is, on or off. Digital does not do 'inbetween' or nuances, if it did, prosthetics would be a lot easier to drive.

Blinking for an extreme example, if we were digital, eyes wide open, or closed. Digital prosthetic eyelids are a way off yet, for this very reason, if ever needed.

Gripping a glass of your favourite tipple for example, takes 'feel', digital feedback is a little clumsy in this regard.

Food for thought though.

Mark

Re: The Persistence of Analogue
 

I find digital sound annoying. I have a suspicion that i find led headlamps annoying because they too are digital. Cell phones were miles better when the sound was analogue...weak signals just got weak, not all chopped up then ceased altogether.
D

Re: The Persistence of Analogue
 

That is actually a deep philosophical question. If the brain worked on a 0 and 1 basis, its operation would have to be algorithmic - an admittedly complicated computer. But one which could, in principle, be programmed into a machine of sufficient complexity.

But the human brain is much more "plastic" than that. Look at the works of the human race. From the music of Bach and Mozart, to the paintings and sculpture of the Renaissance artists, to the mathematics and insights into nature of Galileo, Newton, Einstein, Feynman and so forth.

The problem is that we still have absolutely no idea how the brain works, other than it is an electrochemical machine with 10^11 neurons (that is about the number of stars in our galaxy) and each of those connects to about 7000 other neurons.

Whatever is going on in that astonishing lump of matter inside our skulls, I would venture that it is not digital, or algorithmic in its operation.

Craig

Re: The Persistence of Analogue
 

Indeed. But the interface with the human is analogue, with the clock-face (or hourglass) being the DAC. Digital technology is a means to an end of delivering analogue information to human analogue receptors, that's all.

The cost and reliability advantages of the digital technology information vehicle are clearly evident, so the technology is pursued regardless. The more complex, expensive and less-robust systems of information storage will present the challenge for future generations.

I can scan a photographic negative from one hundred years ago on the latest scanning technology available. But will my JPG or RAW file be readable in one hundred years' time?

Re: The Persistence of Analogue
 

Actually, much (if not all) of the peripheral nervous system is 'digital', and works on a sort frequency-based PCM system.
As it happens, I'm due to have some of mine tested in a few weeks: they will stick co-axial electrodes into my muscles, and scope the nervous inputs and outputs.

Re: The Persistence of Analogue
 

Yes. Just count up the dead media, both analogue and digital, from the last forty years. 8-track tape, cassette tape, quadraphonic, DAT, floppy disc, ZIP drives and media, Telex, Teleprinters, typewriters, analogue TV, core store. And I'll have missed a bunch more.

So yes - choosing a particular storage medium or data format to archive analogue data is absolutely bound to be a losing game.

BTW I did an electronics degree from '74 to '77 without a single mention of microprocessors. Discrete logic - 7000 series TTL yes. Microprocessors? Nope.

Craig

Re: The Persistence of Analogue
 

Here's a train of thought which might stimulate further discussion.

With 'digital' applied to electronics, can we not regard such 'digital signals' as existing within the realm of analogue signals. Reasoning as follows. The amplitude of a digital signal can be of any amplitude that the circuit design requires. And that amplitude could be required to change as it progresses through the electronic system. Every pulse train has a finite rise and fall time. Therefore, since the amplitude, rise and fall times of that pulse train can vary, those parameters are analogue in nature.

Al.

Re: The Persistence of Analogue
 

I'm a bit confused & puzzled about that remark: would you expand and clarify your thinking on that, please?
Thanks.

Al.

Re: The Persistence of Analogue
 

Trying to get HDMI (digital video in the GHz region) through any connector is a very analogue task, RF analogue to boot. To the un-RF educated at work all I get is "it's digital, go/no go, easy!".

Re: The Persistence of Analogue
 

What you describe are a cornucopia of commercially-driven products that are all robust and relatively simple compared to the clocking in-and-out of data. Perhaps when those same commercial organisations 'play ball' and actually decide on a unified standard for data storage without deliberately hobbling each others' formats in the name of profit things might not be so bad.

I note you neglect to mention photographic negatives, microfiche, and the printed word in your list. These can be, and have been used for centuries to store analogue data. Granted, for maximum longevity, critical temperature, light and humidity conditions should be met.

All controlled, no doubt, by digital technology...

Re: The Persistence of Analogue
 

Yeah, easy! Right up to the point where they have to try to do it :-)

David

Re: The Persistence of Analogue
 

The nature of reality isn't clear... on the quantum level i can think of particles in terms of their quantum state which implies to me a sort of digital universe, but the wave function of a particle is probabilistic, which would perhaps lean more towards an analogue view of the universe.