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Old 16th May 2014, 1:43 pm   #141
SteveCG
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013

Hybrid Tellies,

Yes, you are correct about B1 relative to E1 and also F2. However Eastern European telecoms in the 41-45 Mc/s range were an SpE nuisance in B1 fringe areas - I well remember! BTW North Hessary Tor Ch B2 travelled far. I could receive it in the Midlands on a 4 element Premier Aerials array. If I turned the aerial in the opposite direction I then got Holme Moss - what a choice of local news and weather !
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Old 16th May 2014, 1:57 pm   #142
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013

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Does your 'huge' aerial have a red dot on it or something which says Group (Gp) A ?
I don't think it has a dot but it's been a while since I examined it closely. I remember buying it from Tandy in about 1989, 'twas the biggest they sold and my dad & I had a bit of difficulty actually getting it up through the loft hatch even disassembled. We pointed it roughly the same direction as one of the aerials on the roof, then experimented with exact direction for best signal before bolting it to a beam.

By that time I was a teenager and wanted decent TV reception in my bedroom.

The H aerial is pretty solid, it survived the storms of '87 and '13 and no doubt others that caused significant damage to trees and roofs in the area. I've never seen a cable hanging from it but that doesn't prove it's connected. Nobody has been on the roof other than to replace some tiles at the lower end...certainly not in over 35 years.
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Old 17th May 2014, 10:02 am   #143
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013

Gulliver,

Often the connections corrode inside the dipole junction box. Indeed the southward pointing (towards London's main TV transmitter - Crystal Palace) UHF aerial is a J-Beam MBM design (easily recognisable by its bent X type directors and its 'square-back' dipole and reflector). These were reasonable aerials for the time but unfortunately they suffer from corroded junction box innards which mean they don't work these days - unless they are mounted inside, in the loft say. The other UHF aerial pointing towards Sandy Heath could well be an Antiference make. These too can suffer from corroded junction box contents; so putting an aerial in the loft was a good idea !

The UHF aerial you bought from Tandy has a good chance to be a 'wide-band' design ( Group W - colour code black).

BTW whilst I do not recommend going on a roof unless you know what you are doing, if you ever did that you could expect the tip-to-tip element distance for the 'H' dipole to be about 5 feet if it is a VHF/FM aerial and about 7 foot, six inches if it was a TV aerial for the old Peterborough, Channel B5, 405-line TV transmitter.
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Old 20th May 2014, 6:04 pm   #144
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013

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BTW North Hessary Tor Ch B2 travelled far. I could receive it in the Midlands on a 4 element Premier Aerials array. If I turned the aerial in the opposite direction I then got Holme Moss - what a choice of local news and weather !
You are right about North Hessary Tor. When we moved from Cornwall to near Bath in Somerset I was pleasantly surprised to see the B2 signal on my dual standard GEC black and white TV set. Because it's valves tuner would not work on the high UHF 625 channels from Mendip I used it to watch BBC1 on 405 from Wenvoe on ch B5. During SpE openings you would get this strange pattering effect which was co channel interference from the Soviet block FM radio stations.
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Old 20th May 2014, 7:06 pm   #145
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013

Found this 405 band 1 and band 3 aerial at the main hospital in Bath yesterday. It's attached to an older building and has to be pre 1968. It's pointing at Wenvoe on B5 and St Hilary B10 both vertical polarisation. Looking at the condition of this combined array I guess the RUH near Weston Bath is quite a sheltered location.
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Old 21st May 2014, 10:28 am   #146
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013

Simon,

That a nice Antiference 3 element Band I, 'Trumatch' design - but the wide-band double 8 on Band III is a new one on me! Presumably it was wideband to receive the Channel B7, B10 and B13 from the South Wales transmitters.

Bath later had TV relays for BBC and ITV, both in Band III so little 4 element Belling & Lee wideband aerials were to be seen on the skyline.
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Old 21st May 2014, 10:29 am   #147
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013

Great photo Simon. Reception must've been a struggle in parts of Bath with the size of the aerials there. I remember seeing a double BIII horizontally polarised aerial around the Lower Bristol Road area in the '80s, suggesting even the relay struggled in some parts.

I could receive North Hessary Tor in Chippenham, though reception was weak on the ch5 "X" Wenvoe aerial.

Cheers,
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Old 22nd May 2014, 12:48 pm   #148
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013

This part of Bath is screened from the local Bathampton relay station at UHF but I think band 3 did make it to these parts. As the Bathampton station did not open up until 1968 I suspect this aerial dates from the mid 1960's.
When I was in the trade Antiference aerials, VHF and UHF, were considered to be the best and most durable.
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Old 23rd May 2014, 10:13 am   #149
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013

Since the Bath relays were on B6 and B8 then receiving B7 after their switch-on would have been a 'challenge'.

Simon - yes I found that Antiference's BI, BII and BIII 'Trumatch' designs - both mechanical and electrical - were good. Mind you I have a soft spot for some J-Beam designs as well with their use (in the early days) of alloy nuts and bolts. J-Beam's early PBM18 designs were not bad - and in the case of Group A, they had impressively long booms!
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Old 6th Jun 2014, 9:11 am   #150
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013

Three posts moved to a new thread here:-

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=106791
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Old 8th Jun 2014, 8:10 pm   #151
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013

I have just this morning erected this Telecraft combined B1/B3 aerial on the garage. It was removed from a house in the Rudgwick area just over the Surrey border into West Sussex. It was originally lined up with the south coast so will be channels 3 and 11.
I have lined it up with London and at the moment it picks up traffic interference and odd strange transmissions on a Thorn 1400. It is very lively but most of the 13 channels are dead. Looks great! John.
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Old 8th Jun 2014, 8:46 pm   #152
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013

Looks the part John and a fitting addition to the collection.
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Old 9th Jun 2014, 9:14 am   #153
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013

John,

Nice to see one being re-erected.

A question : Are you certain that the aerial make is Telecraft and not Telerection?

I ask because I had a channel B2 only version of this X design and I'm 99% certain mine was a was Telerection. Mine was a director -dipole type of X (like yours), with the connections to the Band I part via terminals which are the inside of the dipole holder that pushes into the boom. I found that the connections were open circuit to the dipole elements. Clearly the elements were threaded and screwed into the holder. They were corroded fast and could not be shifted. So "an interesting aerial to look at but for recommissioning purposes, not a lot of use".

I see that you have a folded dipole for Band III, I trust you have checked that for continuity. Are you using a diplexer to combine the separate BI and BIII downleads?
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Old 9th Jun 2014, 6:11 pm   #154
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013

Looks really good John, all ready for the return of 405 !
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Old 9th Jun 2014, 7:07 pm   #155
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013

I'm going to need a slightly bigger aerial than that where I live
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Old 9th Jun 2014, 7:37 pm   #156
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013

Ref post 151. That does look nice on your roof John. I bet if you connected this up to a DAB radio the band 3 aerial would give you all the London multiplexes from Crystal Palace and Croydon at good strength.
Last week near the top of Muller Road in Bristol I noticed two good condition X band 1 TV roof aerials for BBC 1 on ch5 from Wenvoe. As I was driving I could not stop to take a photo.
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Old 11th Jun 2014, 6:02 pm   #157
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013

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A question : Are you certain that the aerial make is Telecraft and not Telerection?
You are absolutely correct! It was bright and sunny when I erected it on Sunday. I could just make out the word TELE.. and immediately thought of Telecraft that were based in Croydon. I used to sell their indoor aerial range.
The rep was Mr Valentine. OOOW a long time ago.
The connector box was stuck fast on the Band 1 element so I decided to leave alone and join the new coax to the existing length that was still attached to the aerial. It is in very good condition and has continuity to the elements. There was a diplexer or rather the remains of it attached to the pole. I only connected the cable to the Band 1 section but a diplexer could be easily added when I uncover a couple I have squirreled away somewhere 'safe'... It is certainly picking up 'something' but it does not resemble a test card.
Happy days!
Regards, John.
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Old 12th Jun 2014, 6:57 am   #158
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013

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Originally Posted by Hybrid tellies View Post
Last week near the top of Muller Road in Bristol I noticed two good condition X band 1 TV roof aerials for BBC 1 on ch5 from Wenvoe. As I was driving I could not stop to take a photo.
Good morning Hybridtellies - would that have been the end near Heath Road / M32 or the other end by Gloucester Road? I was wondering whether a 'virtual drivepast' using GoogleEarth might show it.
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Old 12th Jun 2014, 11:30 am   #159
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013

Thought you folks might enjoy seeing some vintage Yank antennas. These are both from the 50s-60s era. They were found still up in the air in 2004. My grandmother had one like in the first picture. It also came in a 1-bay style.

I believe they were made by Finney/Finco?
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Old 12th Jun 2014, 11:50 am   #160
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Default Re: 405-Line VHF Aerials in 2013-2014

John,

Happy viewing indeed with your aerial! All I've detected on Band I these days has been some Ionospheric radar signals. Perhaps somebody might know whether there are still any analogue transmissions from the old Soviet Union countries?

I reckon that the Band III section could indeed work on DAB frequencies as Simon suggests. (This because B11 was up the U.K. TV frequency scale where DAB comes in at B13 and slightly above. Because there are only a few directors these higher frequency DAB signals are likely to 'get through' the director chain - unlike what would happen if it had been an 8 element channelised Band III array)
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