Was it possible to convert 625 lines to 405 lines at the time of 405 switch off?

[Okto1984]

I'm wondering what happened to people with 405 line sets when their signal was turned off? Was there any kind of way to keep using the set at the time? I understand most 405 line sets would have been quite old by the mid 80s, but some must still have been in use?

[FERNSEH]

We were told that only few hundred 405 only receivers were still in use at the time of the switch off. In fact it was more likely to be many thousands of 405 sets that were still kept working in places where UHF was impossible to receive. Particularly in Scotland.

DFWB.

[Nickthedentist]

There was no way for domestic users to continue to use their sets, which became junk overnight.

I can remember seeing a lot of 12"/14" monochrome sets from c. 1960 (I think) put out for the bin men at about that time. They were often being used as second sets in bedrooms etc.

Nick.

[1955APREN]

After the start of three programme colour 625/uhf in Nov 1969, people still using 405/ vhf on dual sets where very reluctant to use 625/uhf for their BBC1/ ITV Mtv, this might have been due to the fact that BBC1 S/Coldfield in this part the country was always a poorer quality picture then ch4.

I understand that the switch off 405 transmitters was done at different times in different parts of the country. It may have Winter Hill that was the last one to go.

I seem to remember a news item showing the duty eng pulling the switch for the last time; this may have been some time in 1984.

Regards,
Derrick

[emeritus]

No personal experience, but I seem to recall reading that it had been found that you could record 405 line broadcasts on an ordinary VHS recorder, and that enthusiasts were able to use their old TVs to view such archive recordings after 405 broadcasting had ceased. VHS recorders for use in Ireland were ideal as they were designed for use at VHF as well as UHF.

[Andy Doz]

... except for the sound wouldn't have worked.

You would have had to provide a simulcast of AM sound, and feed it baseband into the vcr.

[G6Tanuki]

625-to-405-line conversion would not have been practical in a domestic environment.

I don't really think there would have been that many 405-line-only TVs still in serious service in the early-1980s when VHF TV shut down: pretty much everyone I knew back then had switched to UHF/625/colour a decade earlier for their main TV. Even students had colour TVs in their rooms back then.

[FERNSEH]

My shop opened in 1972 and even at that time it was considered unnecessary to install a 405 line aerial system for band 1 and 3 reception so only the UHF and VHF-FM aerials was erected. On odd occasions would a 405 only TV come in for repair and there was sufficient signal from the FM aerial to carry any repairs. Usually the owners of such sets were reluctant to spend any money on these old sets but sometimes I would come across a really pristine set which warranted repair. CWS Defiant sets for example.
The RGD Deep 17 was another. Owners of these sets weren't bothered too much about the large boxy cabinets, in fact they liked them.
DFWB.

[Nicklyons2]

Originally Posted by 1955APREN

I understand that the switch off 405 transmitters was done at different times in different parts of the country. It may have Winter Hill that was the last one to go.

I seem to remember a news item showing the duty eng pulling the switch for the last time; this may have been some time in 1984.

It was very early Jan 1985, 3rd I think, when the bulk of the transmitters were shut down although Crystal Palace shut down around midnight of the previous day. Winter Hill was definately not the last to be shut down, I was watching it when it happened around 09:00hrs. Emley Moor closed mid afternoon the same day and Holme Moss a few minutes later. Folklore has it the engineers at Holme Moss wanted to be one of the last off and were determined not to 'pull the plg' until Emley had gone off.

As said earlier there was no way (at the time) any 405 only set could be made usable after the switch off BUT remember by that time even the last of such sets would have been over 20 years old. Think of how old equipment is before being regarded as obsolete these days!

Originally Posted by emeritus

No personal experience, VHS recorders for use in Ireland were ideal as they were designed for use at VHF as well as UHF.

VHS recorders for use in Ireland only had IFs/demods for system I. As syatem A had positive vision mod {I is negative) and AM sound (I is FM) I doubt whether they would have been any more use than any other VHS machine. The only way to record to VHS, or any other helical scan machine for that matter, was to feed in baseband video & audio.

[SteveCG]

I watched the BBC News item announcing the close of 405 line TV the previous day on a 405 line TV tuned to the Channel B1 signals from Llandrindod Wells. It went off the following day. I was told that LL. W. had its own digital standards converter - unlike the earlier generation of 'analogue' type converters that were in use at the main transmitters - so I guess somebody had to drive out there to switch it off.

I modified a 405 line set before the close-down to provide baseband sound and vision signals which I recorded on my Panasonic VHS recorder. It worked well, playing back via a home brew system A modulator.

[Nicklyons2]

Originally Posted by SteveCG

so I guess somebody had to drive out there to switch it off.

Steve, that is exactly why they didn't all go off at the same time; several transmitters which had once been fully manned were, by 1985, either semi-automatic or, more crudely, left to their own devices except in fault conditions. Most of the relays had always been unmanned; it fell to the maintenance crews to drive around and turn off the remote 405 transmiiterrs and then the main TX (often the maintenance crew base) could be switched off.

[Hybrid tellies]

As has been already said there was no practical way to convert 625 to 405 back in the mid 1980's. When I started work in 1976 in the city of Bath most viewers had already switched over to 625 with just one or two small pockets around the area which were out of reach of the 625 line service so we did have a few customers with later type dual standard TV's such as the RBM A640 and BRC 1400's. When 405 was switched off some of these communities got together with a self help system either using a cable system or a low powered, approved of course, UHF 625 transmitter.

[AidanLunn]

Originally Posted by 1955APREN

I understand that the switch off 405 transmitters was done at different times in different parts of the country. It may have Winter Hill that was the last one to go.

That was actually Melvaig - although most of the main ones were switched off in January 85 - LLanddona was switched off in 1984, though.

[AidanLunn]

Originally Posted by Nicklyons2

It was very early Jan 1985, 3rd I think, when the bulk of the transmitters were shut down although Crystal Palace shut down around midnight of the previous day.

Despite the BBC1 closedown, that night, HKS has said that he did observe BBC Breakfast Time on a 405 set the next morning.

[Okto1984]

Thank you each for the explanations.

The thing I'm wondering now, although it's probably not one single reason, is why did people keep their 405 line sets after the signal ended?

[AidanLunn]

Many were just stashed away as spare sets at some earlier point in time and were just forgotten about.

[dsergeant]

I am a bit surprised that by 1985 there was ANYONE watching 405 lines, in most places the transition to UHF had happened by the early 1970s with most people only having UHF aerials on their chimneys. It certainly was the case in the rented house I lived in from 1973, no sign of a band 1/111 aerial anywhere. And I was also led to believe that by that time the links between transmitters were mainly 625 lines with converters at the transmitters for the 405 ones - 625/405 conversion could certainly be done at transmitters even though it was not practical in the domestic environment.

[KeithsTV]

Around 1984 I was working in Menai Bridge on Anglesey and walking down on road on a daily basis I could hear a distinct 10k whistle as I passed one house. I left late 84 so never got to find out what happened after January 85.

A friend of mine at the time was a TV engineer and later told me someone came into the shop to say their TV was faulty as there was no picture. The date was January 85!!

So there were at least two households watching 405 line TV on Anglesey.

Keith

[Brigham]

Was anyone on here ready to convert 625 to 405 in time for the switch-off?

[Heatercathodeshort]

I have a quantity of 405 line VHS tapes I recorded during the last few months of 405 transmissions. A video take off was obtained via an emitter follower stage from the video amplifier PFL200 on a Bush 640 chassis. The recorder was a Ferguson [JVC] 3V29.
The results when played back via a home constructed David Looser modulator were just like a live transmission. I still have the tapes, the Bush 640 TV166 and the old 3V29!
This is how I showed pictures on 405 receivers until the arrival of the Pineapple and then later, the incredible AURORA we have today.
The standards converter installed at the Crystal Palace transmitter in 1969 is now installed at the BVWTV museum at Dulwich. John