US KLH Model 11 Slow in UK with step down

[queen_autumn]

Hello. I have a KLG Model Eleven with Garrard parts because they partnered on this model. I've used it for years without fault in the US then moved to the UK. I use a step down on the 2 prong cord, but the turntable is slow. Does this just need a smaller or larger disc for the motor or a new Garrard motor altogether?

I obviously know little of what I'm speaking about, but I'm trying to learn. Here is a video of it in use and I know it is greased up just fine and not too hard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u5zK5fgPXY

Any help would be greatly appreciated because I need to start my son on listening to records.

Thanks in advance,
-a

[paulsherwin]

The motor speed is governed by the mains power frequency. In North America this is 60Hz, while in Europe and most of the rest of the world it is 50Hz. This is a separate issue from the mains voltage.

A US motor will thus run slow in the UK, even if the voltage is correct. It's sometimes possible to change the motor spindle to correct the speed. Changing the whole motor will be tricky because you will then have a 240V motor in an otherwise 120V player, so you couldn't just power it from an external step down transformer.

[Nuvistor]

Is the stepped pulley on the motor spindle removable? You could advertise for one if it is or even try to get one made. If you only play 33rpm records it would not even need the steps.
One problem you cannot get around is that a motor made for 60Hz may run hotter on 50Hz and fail.
Frank

[usradcoll1]

There's also a strong possibility that the mains transformer in the KLH is running hot, as well. 60 hz transformers are a lot smaller.

[Nuvistor]

That's also a possibility, unfortunately I cannot be definite about either the motor or transformer being overloaded, depends on how they were designed. The motor may well be marked 50/60Hz, if so it will just require the pulley size changing. As for the mains TX, I don't know.

Frank

[winston_1]

With Garrard turntables you could get stepped pulleys for either 60 or 50Hz Whether they are still available is another matter. I also seem to recall the motors were dual voltage. There were links to put the two halves of the winding in series or parallel.

[julie_m]

Probably the easiest solution is a 60 Hz power supply. A shaded-pole motor does not even care about a proper sinusoidal waveform; it is the reversals of the field in the stator that move the armature around, by means of magnetic attraction and repulsion, and it always takes the same number of reversals to make one turn. All that matters is for the frequency to be correct and for there to be exactly as much energy above the line as below it, so the magnetic field created by each crest is exactly cancelled out by the trough that follows.

Rather than design a power supply from scratch (Where am I going to get a 3.93216 MHz crystal from, anyway?), I probably would just order myself a 12 V DC to 120 V / 60 Hz inverter, and a suitable 230 V / 50 Hz to 12 V DC power supply, from any of The Usual Places online. 100 Watts will be plenty. To get the full output would require the best part of 10 amps, but a 5 amp power supply would be more than adequate if it was only supplying the turntable motor.

[paulsherwin]

Or, put the KLH into storage while you're in the UK and buy a British player, either vintage or modern. Many of the modern players are awful though - search the forum for "crosley" for lots of negative threads about them.

[emeritus]

google "garrard 50 Hz pulley" and you will find they are available at a price, for example £29.99 from a UK firm that make them to order using precision CNC milling. That came top of the search list: possibly cheaper ones are available further down.

[GP49000]

ALL the Garrards used in KLH systems had four pole motors with interchangeable motor pulleys. The earlier ones were AT6, then the Model 3000 (four pole motor on special order by KLH, retail Model 3000 in the UK had two pole motors). You can substitute a 50Hz pullley for UK mains and may be able to get one from a used unit (some EBay sellers are now scrapping out record changers for parts instead of selling them whole...probably becaues shipping costs have become astronomical for heavy items). But NOTE: When Garrard introduced the Synchro-Lab motor, they also went into KLH systems. The pulleys for the Synchro-Lab motors differ from those for induction motors because the induction motors run slightly slower. Unlike the units sold by Garrard itself, those in KLH (and other OEM systems) with Synchro-Lab motors did not have the identifying black logo plates with Synchro-Lab printed on them. The KLH Eleven (KLH used the spelled-out name, not numerals) was introduced in 1962 and was built into the late 1960s...Synchro-Lab motors first appeared in 1967 so most KLH Elevens didn't have them (and if yours has a Garrard AT6, it definitely won't).

A proper voltage step-down device to reduce 220-240V to 110-120...such as a conversion transformer of sufficient current rating...would provide proper voltage to the KLH Eleven and the Garrard, but not the correct frequency. The cheapies for traveling with electric razors and such would be useless.

The KLH Eleven is an excellent phonograph. It was the first fully transistorized portable phonograph and its amplifier was frequency contoured to compensate for the response of its loudspeakers, so that if one substituted a "better" speaker, the sound actually got worse. KLH even claimed that if one replaced the stock Pickering V-15/AT-2 cartridge, the sound would deteriorate, but substituting an elliptical Pickering stylus such as for the V-15/ATE-4 did help inner-groove reproduction. I make no claims about aftermarket substitutes...they vary all over the lot but simple spherical styli such as those used in the KLH are less critical so the better aftermarket makers do a reasonable job on them (the lousy ones are...well, LOUSY!).

[Radio Wrangler]

Perhaps the easiest way out would be to get an entire 50Hz UK-spec Garrard autochanger and re-connect the motor windings for 120v?

David

[Refugee]

The motors ought to be the same apart from the voltage. It is the stepped pinion that sets the speed.
Just ask someone whom owns a UK model and get them to measure the stepped pinion up for you and then take the measurements with you to a model railway enthusiast to make you a copy of it on his lathe.

Or if you don't use 45 rpm turn that one down a bit.

[Techman]

I have a feeling that this has now all gone way over the head of the OP and has turned out to be a far more complicated issue than they had at first hoped.

[paulsherwin]

I agree, but sadly there is no instant magic fix for this.

[queen_autumn]

Yes, It went over my head a bit, but I am understanding it a lot more now and do enjoy the discussion, even if technical. I absolutely love the sound my KLH makes, and because it was a gift it has a lot of sentimental value. Replacing it with a modern one is out in my book. I used both 11 and eleven in my post so it would show up in searches. I've taken it into Wilkinson's in Nelson and I'm eagerly awaiting news of what can be done.

[Refugee]

Another solution we have not had yet is to use a small sine wave oscillator and a mono audio amplifier and a step up transformer. This method was occasionally used to run AC record players from DC mains many years ago.

[queen_autumn]

Pulley was replaced and now it is coming in at about 111 revolutions per 3 minutes. Does anyone know how to slow it down a bit? Minor adjustment?

Thanks for all of your help. The sound is amazing. Google "lovage klh model eleven" for example on Youtube.

['LIVEWIRE?']

That is about 11% fast, so, if the stepped pulley is the correct diameter for 50Hz, something is still not right. There is no speed adjustment on any shaded pole AC motor, other than ensuring the correct supply voltage and frquency is used. With the speed set to 33.333RPM, you should obviously be measuring 100revolutions in 3 minutes. May I ask how you are measuring the rotational speed of the motor? It seem odd, that, from running slow, it is now about 11% fast!

[paulsherwin]

11% fast should be clearly audible.