|
General Vintage Technology Discussions For general discussions about vintage radio and other vintage electronics etc. |
|
Thread Tools |
25th Oct 2014, 10:35 pm | #1 |
Heptode
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Derby DE1, Derbyshire, UK.
Posts: 626
|
The cost of that ECC83 valve?
Hi,
Could anyone give an explanation as to why the cost of the ECC83 valve is now going through the roof, up to £100 just for one piece Paul. |
25th Oct 2014, 11:16 pm | #2 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 9,642
|
Re: The cost of that ECC83 valve?
They're not in particularly short supply, so it seems to be Audiophoolery.
It also depends on the wording of the advertisement, so add Psychology. |
25th Oct 2014, 11:29 pm | #3 |
Hexode
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Magor, Monmouthshire, Wales, UK.
Posts: 436
|
Re: The cost of that ECC83 valve?
It's what the market will stand, why sell it for a tenner if you can get a ton for it?
__________________
Adapt, Improvise, Oh Bother..... |
26th Oct 2014, 12:12 am | #4 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Charmouth, Dorset, UK.
Posts: 3,601
|
Re: The cost of that ECC83 valve?
Have a look on eBay.
Peter |
26th Oct 2014, 1:49 am | #5 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oxfordshire, UK.
Posts: 4,934
|
Re: The cost of that ECC83 valve?
It's not just the 'obvious' audio valves; I've seen recent audio amplifier circuits appear using things like EF91's and PCL86's, so prices of those have started to rise; no valve is safe
B
__________________
Saturn V had 6 million pounds of fuel. It would take thirty thousand strong men to lift it an inch. |
26th Oct 2014, 2:34 am | #6 |
Heptode
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Stockport, Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 827
|
Re: The cost of that ECC83 valve?
|
26th Oct 2014, 3:19 am | #7 |
Pentode
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 129
|
Re: The cost of that ECC83 valve?
in case of NOS ECC83 demand are too high
ECC83 from recent production ..no comments about quality in case of russian 6n2p prices are 300% higher then 2 years ago |
26th Oct 2014, 11:58 am | #8 |
Heptode
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Derby DE1, Derbyshire, UK.
Posts: 626
|
Re: The cost of that ECC83 valve?
Hi martin,
So as a layman so to speak, i could buy a much cheaper one and not realise that it would be unsuitable as a replacment Paul. |
26th Oct 2014, 7:55 pm | #9 |
Octode
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Penrith, Cumbria, UK
Posts: 1,993
|
Re: The cost of that ECC83 valve?
I think it's just the "NOS" stuff thats pricy, plenty of serviceable ECC83/12AX7 available from the likes of JJ Tesla, electroharmonix etc. I happily use them in my Hi Fi applications and leave the NOS stuff to the completists or those that actually think a valve makes that much difference.............. Cynical moi?
Andy. |
26th Oct 2014, 8:05 pm | #10 | |
Octode
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Penrith, Cumbria, UK
Posts: 1,993
|
Re: The cost of that ECC83 valve?
Quote:
I think they are also still in production by JJ, loads about. |
|
26th Oct 2014, 8:31 pm | #11 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: W.Butterwick, near Doncaster UK.
Posts: 8,932
|
Re: The cost of that ECC83 valve?
It really has got to a stage now where you dare not sell a valve for fear of needing it in the future.
Certainly decent ECC83 etc are available for under £12.
__________________
G8JET BVWS Archivist and Member V.M.A.R.S |
26th Oct 2014, 9:35 pm | #12 | |
Octode
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Bletchley, Buckinghamshire, UK.
Posts: 1,219
|
Re: The cost of that ECC83 valve?
Quote:
So the "vintage hi-fi" scene has become very similar to the art world where the signature on a painting defines an object's value, sometimes more so than the technical competence of the artist. In some situations the label on a valve defines its desirability. This can lead to the odd result that where the output of a given production line was labelled with several different brand names, some of them are considered many times more valuable than others - even though they are absolutely identical. Some ECC83's are better than others, and some labels more desirable than others. The two factors don't always coincide. |
|
26th Oct 2014, 10:17 pm | #13 |
Pentode
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Posts: 202
|
Re: The cost of that ECC83 valve?
@Hifinut: actually, a PCL86 contains half an ECC83. I did a similar stunt with a Hacker RV19 design. Works like a charm. Matched the two PCL86s from my inventory of used tubes.
As for prices: it is getting ridiculous. Just found out I have two dud TFK ECC803S's, they sell NOS for many hundreds of euros (or pounds, for that matter). As for better: if they're close enough to the specs no one will hear any difference... Tjerk, 9ZZ |
26th Oct 2014, 11:23 pm | #14 |
Octode
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Penrith, Cumbria, UK
Posts: 1,993
|
Re: The cost of that ECC83 valve?
Yeah that's right enough half an ecc83 and an output pentode in one envelope, its the same valve as the unobtanium ECL86 but with am odd heater voltage as its designed for a 300mA chain in a telly. But it'll work with between 12 and 14V on the heaters so it will suit for a one off design based on the old Rogers circuit.
Its unfortunate about your ECC803 valves, no longer manufactured, they were as I seem to remember a special high mu valve made only by Brimar, and are now like gold dust for the phono stage in a Rogers amp. I believe you can rework it to use ECC83 but the sensitivity drops accordingly. |
27th Oct 2014, 1:04 am | #15 | |
Nonode
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Coulsdon, Surrey, UK.
Posts: 2,130
|
Re: The cost of that ECC83 valve?
Quote:
That would be ECC807 in fact - used only by Rogers it seems. You can indeed rework the circuit quite well for ECC83s ( any make you like - not a jot of difference ! ) The gain is pretty much unchanged, due to the amount of feedback used. But don't let on for goodness sake ! A. PS I always understood that PCLs were intended for lower DC voltages at higher currents, therefore different ra and not strictly interchangeable Save up those ECL86's !! |
|
27th Oct 2014, 1:13 am | #16 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Oxfordshire, UK.
Posts: 4,311
|
Re: The cost of that ECC83 valve?
Quote:
As for the more general question of why the price of certain valves has risen, the explanation comes down to the shortage of supply (they're no longer being made) and the sustained demand (it's widely believed that the expertise built up by the volume manufacturers combined with the quality control procedures needed in their competitive and demanding market meant that they simply made better valves than modern manufacturers do). The effects of Supply and Demand have been understood for centuries http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand. They shouldn't come as a surprise. Cheers, GJ
__________________
http://www.ampregen.com |
|
27th Oct 2014, 6:04 am | #17 |
Pentode
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Posts: 202
|
Re: The cost of that ECC83 valve?
Certainly, the rules for supply and demand do apply. It's the demand side that baffles everybody. Why pay a fortune for a NOS diamond base TFK ECC83 when a clone (Chinese, JJ, whatever) will do the job exactly the same way? It's all between the ears. The people that pay a fortune for said diamond base have this urge to have it exactly right even if there's no basis for this whatsoever. People like Hifinut and myself who like to tinker and try different avenues (PCL86 with 14V heater instead of the identical ECL86) get the same excellent results at a fraction of the cost.
Tjerk, 9ZZ |
27th Oct 2014, 8:35 am | #18 |
Nonode
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Resolven, Wales; and Bristol, England
Posts: 2,608
|
Re: The cost of that ECC83 valve?
But, I venture to suggest, we on this forum are largely well-educated in the art of valves and have the knowledge to understand them, not just relying on manufacturers labels, or the colour of those labels. Just as we are unlikely to buy snake oil.
__________________
Richard Index: recursive loop: see recursive loop |
27th Oct 2014, 9:32 am | #19 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Worthing, West Sussex, UK
Posts: 5,185
|
Re: The cost of that ECC83 valve?
Quote:
I dread the day when we simply cannot justify restoring an item due to the cost of the valves we need. I was lucky enough to find four PX4's in a job lot of valves I purchased some time ago, two of these were needed to restore a couple of sets that had previously been pillaged to satisfy the audiophools. I have noticed that a lot of run of the mill 1930's valves that were available at reasonable prices are also becoming much more expensive. Mark |
|
27th Oct 2014, 10:18 am | #20 |
Guest
Posts: n/a
|
Re: The cost of that ECC83 valve?
Brand new for 12 quid form Rapid, perfectly good and the writing seems to be better stuck on than older valves.
|