HMV model 1612

[Swimmy133]

Hi, my mother has a HMV model 1612. It has a radio in one top cabinet and a gramophone in the other. She also has the original brochure and valve diagram.
Is anyone able to tell her any more about it - age, value and the reason why HMV wanted to make such a massive piece of furniture?

Thanks.

[Edward Huggins]

This is from 1950 and had 15 valves. These were bought as much as being elegant pieces of furniture as for their relatively advanced electronics. They also had to store bulky 10" and 12" 78 rpm records and house large loudspeaker(s). In a period of post-war austerity these were certainly statements of luxury. If anyone were to make them, it would be HMV.

[yestertech]

Wow, that's a beauty !
Very top of the range, and something of a status symbol back in the 50's
Dates from 1951 I believe and would have been out of most people's reach, cost wise.
It has motorised tuning and two large speakers, so would have sounded superb.
You'd easily fill a very large room, as it has around 20 watts of audio available, about 6 times more than most radiograms of the time !

Value is tricky, as it is no doubt worth decent money, but you would need to find someone who has the room to give it pride of place...

Andy

[FIXITNOW]

Nice, but it needs a lot of space which limits the number of people that want these and therefore the value. Some pictures of the actual unit to see the condition would help. Does it work?

If it needs a full rebuild and cabinet work it would seriously effect it's value, as they can cost more to rebuild than they are worth.

[Swimmy133]

Thank you for your replies.

It does have a motorised tuner - I used to love annoying my dad by changing the favourite stations to my favourites!

It is loud and is in pretty much full working order although I haven't heard it being played for some years, The cabinet has the marks you'd expect from something of that age but all of the woodwork is in great condition as it has never been exposed to damp or any other poor conditions.

I'll take a couple of photos of it when I'm there next, but she'll be pleased to know what you lovely people have revealed so far.

Thank You

[ukcol]

I suspect the 1612 is quite rare. There are not likely to have been many sold, it would have been very expensive and in 1951 we were still in post war austerity with some rationing still in place.

I think, too, it must have been the last of the big HMVs; the previous 15 valve model being the pre-war 800. I don't think HMV built anything of a similar specification and quality later, not even when the high quality VHF/FM broadcasts started in 1955.

I had assumed from its size and layout that it was a radiogram but the HMV service manual describes it as "Model 1612 15-valve Press Button Consul Receiver for AC Mains."

There is on page 3 of the manual :

Gramophone

"Provision is made for the connection of a high quality low impedance record player....."

and on the following page:

Automatic Record Player.

"If it is desired the HMV Automatic Record Player, Model 2104, may be fitted to this model. All bolts, etc., required for securing the record player into the radio cabinet are contained in a linin bag supplied with the record player."

I look forward to seeing any pictures and if yours has the 2104 fitted.

This is a very desirable machine if you can find the right person with room for it.

One last thing, please don't allow it to be broken up for any reason.

[Swimmy133]

Thank you Colin.

It does have an automatic record player and it has the booklet for the model 2014 (I seem to remember it has a chunky white arm), I'll take a photo of that too when I visit.

I also promise you that I will never let it come to any harm or store it where it may get damp damaged.

[Techman]

A fine looking radiogram, but there are a couple possible issues with this instrument that should be mentioned.

I would advise not using the unit too much if it hasn't had any recent servicing done with regards to the amplifier electronics. There are likely to be two capacitors that if of the original type may have developed considerable electrical leakage and can cause damage to expensive or irreplaceable parts. The problem is that the gram will be playing away quite happily but at the point that the sound starts to distort and fade, you may not have time to hit the 'off' button before the magic smoke appears and then it's game over! The capacitors cost a quid each, but can cause hundreds in damage or write the unit off altogether if they fail.

The second worry would be the record changer. I may be wrong, but the one shown looks very much like the EMI in-house single speed 78rpm deck, and it really is 'low impedance' with the pickup being literally just an ohm or two, needing to run into a matching transformer. I've worked on this type of deck and I can tell you that they're not the best. The pickup head uses a non conventional damping method and the magnet can also lose its magnetism. It has no needle grub screw and takes a special type of steel needle that's now unobtainable that's held in place by magnetism and part of the damping pad that protrudes through a slot in the needle tube, but this padding will have rotted and hardened with age and the sound output is likely to be low. If it is the record deck I think it is, it will have a sort of Bakelite drive wheel for the auto part with a rubber drive round part of it which I've found to be either perished and not able to drive the mechanism, or completely rotten and just a pile of dust in the bottom of the cabinet. The decks are repairable if you're a real enthusiast and are able to 'make' the parts required. However, if your gram has been well stored, then it may be that the deck is still in working order. If it is, then you're very lucky, but a good photo will confirm whether the record playing deck is of the type described, or one of the more conventional and repairable types.

Having said all the above, it's still a very nice unit and well worth keeping - a replacement Garrard type record deck could always be fitted (with a little work) to replace an EMI type, although keeping things original is always best if at all possible.

[ukcol]

Originally Posted by Techman

....a replacement Garrard type record deck could always be fitted....

"swimmy123" thinks his machine does in fact have an HMV 2014 deck fitted, which is the one recommended in the HMV manual. I can't find any info on the 2014 but I think the chances that HMV recommended a 78 only deck to be fitted to a 1951 top specification consul are about zero. In any case don't fit a Garrard deck, many a classic gram has been devalued by such action leaving the new owner disparately trying to source an original replacement.

I do agree however, that the 1612 should not be used until it has been overhauled by an expert for the reasons mentioned by "Techman."

EDIT: I have just noticed that "swimmy123" has documentation for record player model 2014 and not 2104 as in the 1612 manual, so we may be talking about 2 different record players or there is a typo error somewhere. I have searched for info for an HMV 2014 player again without luck.

[Techman]

I think that luckily for the OP you may be right with regards to the deck, Colin.

I've just dug out one of my files and noted that GEC, for example, were still fitting both the single speed 78rpm only, and also an early three speed Garrard autochanger in their 1950 year of manufacture radiograms, so by 1951, HMV may have only been fitting three speed decks. However, if you see my recent thread on a Grampian Grampola S.50 record player from 1951 that had been modified and had a three speed deck fitted, it was proven that the original deck would have been single speed 78rpm only, even in that year. I've also found the service data for the EMI 78rpm only autochanger, badged as the HMV 4500, and note that the 'record steady' arm is on the rear right corner, whereas the one in the OP's picture is shown on the left, so hopefully this is the later deck, although still may have its own particular issues being an 'EMI type'.

[Edward Huggins]

If beyond economic repair, one could leave the HMV 2014/2104 deck in situ and use an external deck. This would need to by-pass the input matching transformer. Or if some originality was sacrificed, a Garrard RC75/RC75A 3 speed unit from 1953 could be installed and would keep it roughly "in period".

[ukcol]

I found this on an HMV leaflet of 4 models. The HMV 1612A is described as a radiogram, presumably the A in the model number distinguishes it from the consul receiver.

Look at the price!!!

Mind you it has got cruise control.

[Michael Maurice]

Probably in the region of £10K - £20K in today's money

[Records]

Just worked it out today it would cost £6,500, a £1 in 1950 today is worth £20.44 so that gives you a rough idea

[skodajag]

I believe the 1612 was announced in 1949 for the 1950 year. Originally it was radio only, with the other side being a drinks cabinet. Later it was offered with a deck - several different decks in fact because the unit remained in the catalogue at least until 1953. I have one of these sets and the deck fitted to mine is an EMI 2125 , which may have been made for them by Plessey. Not sure. These sets also had provision for the fitment of an FM radio unit, and a glass top. Yes they are large, but the footprint not so much. The size is more in the height, and the glass top gives very useable shelf space. It has two elliptical speakers and sounds superb. Kt66 output. Price in 1953 was 328 guineas.