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Old 11th Aug 2017, 9:05 pm   #1
12jslater
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Default Asbestos in Pye B16T?

Does the Pye B16T contain any asbestos in the cabinet or chassis?

I'm 15 and my dad pokes his nose in my radios whilst I'm repairing them and constantly queries whether they have asbestos in them, he threatens to throw them out if they do, and he isn't joking, that's how I lost my MINT ww2 gas mask.

Any help would be appreciated.
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Old 11th Aug 2017, 9:24 pm   #2
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Default Re: Asbestos in Pye b16t?

Unless there is any asbestos around the dropper,than very unlikely.

Exception being Line Cord mainly American radios.

Hope this helps.
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Old 11th Aug 2017, 10:45 pm   #3
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Default Re: Asbestos in Pye b16t?

Wow Jake, is a prospective purchase, or do you actually have it?

It wouldn't be asbestos that I'd be concerned about, it would be the EHT.

6kV may not sound a lot; a colour set has typically four times as much, but if ever the old adage "Its the volts that jolts, it's the mills that kills" was apt, it's in this context of mains derived EHT, so take extreme care.


https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=25874
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?p=414133

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Old 12th Aug 2017, 7:17 am   #4
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Default Re: Asbestos in Pye b16t?

Exactly what I thought when I started to read this thread!

I have never found any Asbestos in a B/D16T in fact any television receiver chassis other than washers around the mains dropper in AC/DC models as Graham has mentioned. [Just don't disturb them]

You need to take very great care when handling this chassis. The live end of the EHT capacitor etc is exposed without any form of guard or cover and easily touched if you are not familiar with mains derived EHT systems. Plenty of sound advice on this Forum.

Don't let your Dad read this as he might panic and throw it out.

Pity about the gas mask. John.
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Old 12th Aug 2017, 9:06 am   #5
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Default Re: Asbestos in Pye b16t?

If your dad is concerned and doesn't want you working on it, then you could sell it on here anyway. Doing that with old radios and TVs is much more preferable to simply chucking them out, especially if you paid a lot for it. TVs like this are becoming extinct and we don't need another potential worker chucked in the bin.

If this is your first vintage TV then a late 1950s or a 1960s TV may be easier and possibly safer.

Do you have any forum members living near you? They may be able to give both technical and safety advice to you and your dad, to give reassurances about his concerns but also to point out the danger zones (to both of you but especially him) and how to avoid them. And, if you don't have one, please get an isolation transformer, if anything it would reassure your dad that you are safe when working on it with the back off.

I'm not familiar with the Pye B16T, so I don't know if it's mains EHT set or not (I don't think it is but I'm not sure), but if it is, then I would advise you not to even consider working on it if your dad cares for your safety.
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Last edited by AidanLunn; 12th Aug 2017 at 9:07 am. Reason: correcting "hope" for "how"
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Old 12th Aug 2017, 9:23 am   #6
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Default Re: Asbestos in Pye b16t?

I agree with John. Please be very careful when working on this chassis. Mains derived EHT is very dangerous. NO SECOND CHANCE.

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Old 12th Aug 2017, 9:25 am   #7
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Default Re: Asbestos in Pye b16t?

No asbestos in the Pye B16T. From the safety point of view fit an insulated top cap to the EHT rectifier valve and something similar on the terminals of the EHT smoothing capacitor.

DFWB.
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Old 12th Aug 2017, 1:54 pm   #8
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Default Re: Asbestos in Pye B16T?

I would second Aidans view , the Pye d 16 is a good television set but it is a very tricky one to restore ( some parts are very hard to acccess - I know , I have done one ) and also you do have the danger of the mains derived EHT which gives no second chances !
the best thing you can do it to put it aside and restore a simpler ( and safer ) set that is 5 or 6 years younger .
It would be a very good Idea to make contact with a forum member who was near to you , sadly I am far too far away , who could give you ( and your dad ) helpful advice and practical support .
Dont let any of this put you off though !
great hobby !
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Old 12th Aug 2017, 11:01 pm   #9
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Default Re: Asbestos in Pye B16T?

I've just checked, the B16T does have a mains EHT supply.

Unless you are very skilled with TV servicing, I would NOT even consider restoring this set until you have several years' worth of experience under your belt. Mains EHT is lethal if touched and, judging by some comments above, it's easy to come into contact it. Heed the advice above, don't ignore it: Mains EHT *will* kill if touched! No ifs, no buts, no second chances.

So if you are not experienced in TV servicing, then I'd stay away from servicing this TV.

Cheers,
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Old 13th Aug 2017, 7:18 am   #10
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Default Re: Asbestos in Pye B16T?

I was always told in my youth to keep one hand in my pocket when working with high voltages, can't say I complied but it's good advice anyway as the most likely shock to be lethal is across both arms.

Unless the EHT connector or cable are in a state of decay I can't see how you would accidentally come in contact with EHT unless you remove the connector.

I have had numerous shocks from flyback EHT and that hurts but mains EHT even I would would be cautious about even after 50 years in the trade, a lot of the sets I worked on in the early days had this type of supply - microwave ovens pose a similar threat.

As for asbestos I have seen small panels of it behind the mains droppers of some very old sets but its not general.

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Old 13th Aug 2017, 8:31 am   #11
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Default Re: Asbestos in Pye B16T?

Hello.
During my working days, I repaired many items that used high voltages. Safety and correct working practices should always be adhered to.
Regarding the OP,s TV, the previous posts make no reference to visual and cold checks. A novice should always start in this manner, slowly going through the condition of rubber cabling making sure it's not perished and leaving the wire itself exposed. Capacitors can be examined, tested and replaced in circuits that could be damaged by leaky capacitors well before powering up the set.
The EHT section can be thoroughly checked that it is safe as well prior to powering up.
I see no reason this young chap should give up on the set, simple safety rules will keep him safe, the danger of asbestos even if it was in the set is marginal so long as it's not touched and in a set with a mains transformer it's presence is highly unlikely. Treat the voltages with respect, realise the dangers and use common sense and all Will be fine. The picture tube could present more of a risk than either asbestos or EHT, remember it has a vacuum inside the glass can be as thin as a wine glass and the stresses on it are enormous, strike it or add to its stress and you could be badly cut or worse loose your sight, again be aware of the dangers, use thick industrial gloves and ideally a face mask minimally goggles when manhandling the tube. Put it in a stout cardboard box with packing in it when working on the set less the tube so it's not a hazard to trip over.
I hope you follow my advice.
Enjoy the set, keep it and don't sell it and tell your dad you are getting professional advice on this forum.
I'd be more than happy to reassure him by PM. Many years of my profession and training apprentices in safety is very relevant to what you are doing.
Enjoy

***** EDIT. Take mind in the early days of the Radio and Television trade many young boys were only 15 years old when taken on. The risks were often greater as H&S was nothing like today, people didn't drop like flies back then and often the working practices were such that it was a more dangerous environment, like I say be sensible and you'll be fine. Take your time and don't ever rush things as that's when silly mistakes are made.
Oh and never be afraid to ask even if you think it's a silly question.
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Last edited by D Cassidy; 13th Aug 2017 at 8:49 am. Reason: Added further information
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Old 13th Aug 2017, 9:17 am   #12
AidanLunn
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Default Re: Asbestos in Pye B16T?

I was giving my advice because firstly I attempted a TV from a similar period, the much rated Philips 485U and managed to make a total pig's ear of it culminating in me destroying the CRT heater because I chose to ignore the advice from fellow forum members which was mainly to leave such a set, as late 50s TVs are easier than late 40s ones. Now, there must have been a reason for this advice being given. And knowing I ruined an extremely rare 1940s TV set has never left me as it taught me never to be too ambitious, which I definitely was with that TV!

As soon as I started my next restoration (a 1960 Sobell T192), I could see that their advice was right.

I started off from having no prior experience with restoring radios, unlike the OP, but I learned the hard way that late 1940s TVs (especially ones with mains EHT, which I wouldn't even touch to this day!) are not the best TVs to start on.

The OP said he has restored radios, so we can assume he has learned some restoration and safety practices from that, but is he prepared to risk the mains EHT? After all, if his dad is threatening to chuck the TV out if it has asbestos in it, what will he do if he learns it poses a risk to his son's life if he accidentally touches a part of it?

Part of which is why I advised to get someone local to provide safety and technical advice and also reassure his dad. His dad can't know too much about old electronics if he thinks they are riddled with asbestos, so both of them would benefit from such advice. However I still don't think a late 1940s TV would be a good idea for a first restoration, I tried that and got my fingers badly burnt.

Cheers,
Aidan Lunn
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Old 13th Aug 2017, 9:33 am   #13
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Default Re: Asbestos in Pye B16T?

Hello Aidan.
Thank you for taking time to read my post and make your comments.
Everyone is different and will approach obstacles differently, moving onto a later set with a live chassis may sound like a sensible decision but it too has its hazards, the requirement of an isolating transformer, the greater risk of having asbestos around the mains dropper could add alarm bells to the young lads Dad.
Mains Derived EHT, needn't be an issue so long as the EHT caps are in place or even replaced with better modern types, like I say all initial work should be done cold and improvements made for safety.
The B16 Pye is a simple circuit, slightly awkward granted but nothing really that will catch you out. In fact the mains transformer could be the biggest problem with an open circuit EHT winding.
I think we need to leave it to the young lad to make his mind up after weighing up the replies. I do though think he should keep the set if he decides to restore a later set. He would regret it if he sold it on or scrapped it, remember it is his property to do whatever he wishes.
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Old 13th Aug 2017, 11:56 am   #14
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Default Re: Asbestos in Pye B16T?

I think with regard to mains EHT, I would suggest reading everything that you can find online about it, including the theory behind why it can be deadly and why flyback-derived stuff isn't, and then embarking on any work assuming that you don't know enough about it to guarantee your safety. Also read the story in 'Obsession' about the experienced engineer who still came a cropper through a momentary lapse. Not to suggest not doing it, but to fully appreciate the risk- advice such as putting one hand in your pocket is widespread, and in most instances good advice, but with those voltages and those current levels it won't help you. That said, I would still love a D16T..

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Old 13th Aug 2017, 5:09 pm   #15
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Default Re: Asbestos in Pye B16T?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AidanLunn View Post
I was giving my advice because firstly I attempted a TV from a similar period, the much rated Philips 485U and managed to make a total pig's ear of it culminating in me destroying the CRT heater
This was supposed to say "much rarer" but my phone's autocorrect decided otherwise!
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Old 13th Aug 2017, 8:11 pm   #16
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Default Re: Asbestos in Pye B16T?

I (and I am sure other members of the forum) would not be at all happy with you trying to restore this set. Mains derived EHT requires a large EHT smoothing capacitor which stores much more than enough energy to kill. Even our experienced ex-TV engineers on the forum are wary of these sets as they know of people who have been killed by them.
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Old 13th Aug 2017, 8:29 pm   #17
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Default Re: Asbestos in Pye B16T?

Thread closed pending moderator discussions.
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