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Old 26th Jul 2017, 9:23 am   #1
boombox
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Default Where would you even buy a VoIP ATA that's pulse dialing capable?

I've searched eBay and Google Products but the only HandyTones I can find that seem pulse capable are used ones for sale in the USA!

Any ideas?
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 9:41 am   #2
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Default Re: Where would you even buy a VoIP ATA that's pulse dialing capable?

http://www.rotatone.co.uk/
http://www.dialgizmo.com/
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 9:44 am   #3
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Default Re: Where would you even buy a VoIP ATA that's pulse dialing capable?

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Originally Posted by boombox View Post
I've searched eBay and Google Products but the only HandyTones I can find that seem pulse capable are used ones for sale in the USA!

Any ideas?
I 'googled' the HT 502 (the only one I know works with 'pulse' ) and I've found a firm within a few hundred yards of your address selling them new !! But bear in mind that when new they are over £40 inc VAT in the UK. The Grandstream HT502 has been out for over ten years and has been superseded by newer ATAs twice. Whether the newer ones can accept LD pulses I don't know. Grandstream make no mention of being able to accept LD pulses in any of their paperwork. If you contact them they don't know what you are talking about when you ask about Pulse Dialling! Bear in mind that pulse dialling went out many years ago as far as the 'youngsters' who probably make up the 'whiz kids' at these firms who are developing the latest products. HT502's do come up cheaply occasionally - usually 'used' ones. I was lucky enough to get three without PSUs (they work off 12 volts DC) earlier this year for what worked out to be £7.50 each inc postage. You've just got to keep looking.
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 9:56 am   #4
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Default Re: Where would you even buy a VoIP ATA that's pulse dialing capable?

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Rotatone means modifiying the telephone.

Cost of two Dialgizmos (over £60.00) plus an ATA such as a Linksys PAP2 at say£15 is not far off twice the price of a brand new HT502 at£44 inc VAT - both options providing two lines.

Dialgizmo has the problem that you have to dial the digits one at a time and let it send the DTMF before dialling the next digit. If you dial the digits any faster, you 'beat' the system. You can't use them with a telephone/PBX that has 'stored' numbers either.
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 1:33 pm   #5
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Default Re: Where would you even buy a VoIP ATA that's pulse dialing capable?

HT502s on Amazon from £44.67 including postage (the one at £28.07 works out at £44.68 once you add in postage).
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 11:27 pm   #6
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Default Re: Where would you even buy a VoIP ATA that's pulse dialing capable?

I would imagine, in addition to this, some sort of structured cabling solution would be required for a phone in each room?
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Old 27th Jul 2017, 12:00 am   #7
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Default Re: Where would you even buy a VoIP ATA that's pulse dialing capable?

It doesn't have to be structured. It can just be multiple phone sockets wired in parallel, in the time-honoured way.

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Old 2nd Aug 2017, 3:07 pm   #8
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Default Re: Where would you even buy a VoIP ATA that's pulse dialing capable?

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HT502s on Amazon from £44.67 including postage (the one at £28.07 works out at £44.68 once you add in postage).
Wooooo. A bit of patience paid off just like you guys said it would. I was looking into ordering from Aliexpress a Linksys SPA3000 and two PAP2Ts, and in the meantime (I was nine days into 'negotiations'!), a pair of used Grandstream 503s came up on eBay at a decent price. I've snapped them up. Whilst the Linksys setup would have given me five FXS and one FXO (right?) at least now I can use my rotary phones and will have in total two FXS ports and one FXO port. I'm guessing the 503 can't be programmed to turn the redundant FXO port into an FXS port via software? Anyway I'm delighted!

Just need to get my 746 sorted. I thought I'd got it wired up correctly but when I connected it to the BT line I just got an error purr on the line (don't know the name for the sound but it's just a flat constant tone) and when I try to call my own number with the phone connected it's engaged. I'm guessing I must have wired something wrong in my excitement... will re-check!
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Old 2nd Aug 2017, 5:36 pm   #9
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Default Re: Where would you even buy a VoIP ATA that's pulse dialing capable?

If you are getting Number Unobtainable Tone (NU) when you lift the handset, it sounds like you have bypassed the hook-switch somehow. Try this, hold the earpiece to your ear then plug in the phone, now do you hear dialtone?

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Old 2nd Aug 2017, 8:39 pm   #10
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Default Re: Where would you even buy a VoIP ATA that's pulse dialing capable?

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a pair of used Grandstream 503s came up on eBay at a decent price. I've snapped them up. Whilst the Linksys setup would have given me five FXS and one FXO (right?) at least now I can use my rotary phones and will have in total two FXS ports and one FXO port.

Pellseinydd mentioned that the Grandstream HT 502 supported LD dialling on the FXS ports, I don't think the HT 503 does though.

I've had a quick look at the manual and can find no evidence that it's supported.

The references to "Loop Current Disconnect" refer to a method of indicating to a fax or telephone answering device that the calling party has hung up, and not the dialling method.
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Old 3rd Aug 2017, 9:37 am   #11
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Default Re: Where would you even buy a VoIP ATA that's pulse dialing capable?

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Pellseinydd mentioned that the Grandstream HT 502 supported LD dialling on the FXS ports, I don't think the HT 503 does though.

I've had a quick look at the manual and can find no evidence that it's supported.
But if you look through the HT 502 manual do you find any reference therein that LD dialling is supported? I can't.

Anecdotal references on forums found via Google searches show that the 503 does seem to support LD dialling like its sister product the 502.

Fingers crossed.
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Old 3rd Aug 2017, 1:55 pm   #12
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Default Re: Where would you even buy a VoIP ATA that's pulse dialing capable?

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if you look through the HT 502 manual do you find any reference therein that LD dialling is supported? I can't.
I believe you are correct that it isn't documented.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boombox View Post
Anecdotal references on forums found via Google searches show that the 503 does seem to support LD dialling like its sister product the 502.
It will be good to have confirmation of this.
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Old 3rd Aug 2017, 10:12 pm   #13
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Default Re: Where would you even buy a VoIP ATA that's pulse dialing capable?

Hi.

I have a Grandstream GXW-4008 which is the "big brother" of the HT502. It uses the same firmware file so I would suspect it is the same basic hardware, just with extra ports.

It is not documented, but it does support pulse dialling. It is more fussy than a BT line about dial speed though.

By the look of it the HT502 can still be bought here - http://www.voipon.co.uk/grandstream-...503-p-620.html

Last edited by WayneL74; 3rd Aug 2017 at 10:14 pm. Reason: spelling mistake
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Old 3rd Aug 2017, 10:31 pm   #14
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Default Re: Where would you even buy a VoIP ATA that's pulse dialing capable?

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Anecdotal references on forums found via Google searches show that the 503 does seem to support LD dialling like its sister product the 502.
Amongst the fog of speculation I found this:

https://forums.grandstream.com/forum...?topic=15948.0

Seems to be first hand experience of people who know what they are talking about, so hopefully can be considered authoritative.

To sum up it appears the 503 does work, but it's fussy about the Pulse Repetition Frequency, and/or the mark-space ratio. Perhaps these idiosyncrasies apply equally to the 502?

This may also explain why Grandstream didn't document it.

My guess now is it will work fine.
<EDIT>
This is an alarm company implying that HT502, HT503, HT701 all work with old panels containing pulse auto-diallers.
http://www.ipalarms.net/voip/grandstream.html


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Last edited by Graham G3ZVT; 3rd Aug 2017 at 10:54 pm. Reason: More good news.
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Old 4th Aug 2017, 9:27 am   #15
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Default Re: Where would you even buy a VoIP ATA that's pulse dialing capable?

I and some others on both CNet and the Minor Railways ETD VoIP networks have been using both the HT502 and HT503 with pulse dialling for several years.

Electronic phones which produce pulse dialling (old PO Tele 756 etc, those BT switchable pulse/tone dialling and switchable engineers handsets) seem to work without problem.

However 'mechanical' dials can often have problems. This appears to be due to the fact that pulse dialling in the USA has a different specification to that in the UK.

Both the US and UK dialling spec is 10 pulses per second but that is where similarity ends.

UK pulse dialling is based on loop disconnect digits at the rate 10 (+/- 1) pulses per second where the ratio of the break period is 67 +5%, -4 % of the overall pulse period (i.e. 63% to 72% of the 9 to 11 pps). The old GPO Strowger exchanges would accept roughly 8 to 12 pps but the dials should have been adjusted to the 10 (+/- 1) pps.

However the US pulses are 60% (+/- ?) break. Thus the US tolerances overlapped with the UK tolerances and provided a UK dial was correctly adjusted within the UK spec (i.e. as the electronic pulse diallers are), it will work with the ATAs made to the US spec.

One way around the problem we've found is to reduce the gap between the pulsing contacts slightly on the mechanical dials - thus increasing very slightly the 'make period' to bring it more into line with the US specification.

Grandstream neither mention pulse dialling in their literature or don't know what you are talking about when you contact them. You have to bear in mind that those working for Grandstream have probably never come across pulse dialling in everyday life.

Thoughts are that pulse dialling was in the 'spec' in the early days of VoIP ATAs and somehow it has survived in the Grandstream firmware. Ensure that your Grandstream ATA is not set up to automatically upgrading the firmware if it works with pulse dialling. Digium (and their founder Mark Spencer who developed the open source Asterisk VoIP PBX program) produced an ATA which accepted pulse dialling over twelve years ago but dropped it over ten years ago.

Other than that they work OK with pulse dialling and old vintage telephones. Those of us connected to CNet - the VoIP replica of the UK network in GPO days - have plenty of experience with various ATAs, having been playing with them since the early days of CNet back in 2005/6.

Ian
CNet 0352 2345
MR ETD 053-6278
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Old 7th Aug 2017, 11:55 pm   #16
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Default Re: Where would you even buy a VoIP ATA that's pulse dialing capable?

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One way around the problem we've found is to reduce the gap between the pulsing contacts slightly on the mechanical dials - thus increasing very slightly the 'make period' to bring it more into line with the US specification.
Ian, this sounds interesting - I shall have to look into this. Thank you. Sounds like a modification well worth doing.
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