First Ferguson colour TV?? - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

DPR2015 · 29th Jul 2015, 2:29 pm

I'm new here and am hoping someone can provide me with some help!

I'm after information about the very first Ferguson colour TV...what model was it, and/or is there still one in the UK? I'm trying to find the person who might own one of the very first models made...any information would be greatly appreciated!!

FERNSEH · 29th Jul 2015, 2:52 pm

Do you mean the 1967 model 3700? Or the research models which used the round CRT. I've seen the circuit diagrams of the set, it used two parallel PL500s in the line output stage. Might have been designated as the 1000 series.
Never when into series production.

DFWB.

DPR2015 · 29th Jul 2015, 3:47 pm

I'm after models that were built and in circulation, hoping there might still be one around. Essentially, I'm looking for the very first and/or oldest Ferguson colour TV!

Welsh Anorak · 29th Jul 2015, 4:08 pm

Hi there
It's the Thorn 2000 series, then, which had the distinction of being the world's first all-transistor colour television dating from 1967. It's dual standard, model 3700 with a 25" Mazda CRT and a cabinet with folding doors. The HMV and Marconi models were similar (2700 and 4700). There was a 19" version as well (X701), though I'm not sure it wore a Ferguson badge.
There are still quite a few about - I am restoring one at the moment, though it will be a long haul. I'm sure there are several people on this forum with good working examples.
Glyn

FERNSEH · 29th Jul 2015, 4:31 pm

Like this one: https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...t=Marconi+4701
Work on this set is still in progress.
I'm certain a 19" Ferguson BRC 2000 was made.

DFWB.

jayceebee · 29th Jul 2015, 5:41 pm

Ferguson 3701, you can see it here.

System A · 29th Jul 2015, 8:34 pm

Hi
Here is a picture of my 3700 .
it works very well .
Regards .
Gary.

Heatercathodeshort · 30th Jul 2015, 9:53 am

The Thorn 2000 chassis certainly was their first commercial colour receiver released in 1967.
Not only was it the Worlds first all transistor colour tv, it was also very reliable, let down only by those nasty black electrolytic capacitors that developed leaks and went S/C.
I was involved with this chassis from it's release, and was one of the chassis that launched me into colour servicing with the help of Gordon J King and his excellent book 'Servicing Colour TV receivers'. Happy Days!

There used to be a Perspex case in the Science Museum that contained a 2000 chassis in module form with cards explaining the various panels.
I am told it is in the stores in a sorry state with the neck broken off the CRT.
A sorry end for an example of brilliant British electronics. John.

slidertogrid · 30th Jul 2015, 2:13 pm

I saw the 2000 at the Science Museum some time back. it was in a glass display case and it looked as if the tube neck had been removed to get the doors on the glass case to shut! I cringed at the thought that it had been done just to get it in the display case.
There was a modern CRT set at the side of it as a demonstration as to how much smaller the chassis had got as technology had advanced over the years.
I finally managed to get a 25" HMV Colourmaster for my collection earlier in the year.
They don't seem as scary now as when they were current.
I can remember calling out to a set in a large cabinet and thinking "please be a 3000 " over again until I got the doors open. 6 push buttons...aargh!
Rich.

Brian R Pateman · 31st Jul 2015, 12:59 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by DPR2015

Essentially, I'm looking for the very first and/or oldest Ferguson colour TV!

Why?

FERNSEH · 31st Jul 2015, 2:41 pm

When exactly in 1967 was the Ferguson 3700 first announced and when was it was ready for sale in the shops? It would be interesting to discover when dealers accepted first deliveries of the set.
Didn't they release the HMV 2700 before the Ferguson?

Not a Ferguson but simply for an example my GEC 2028 is date stamped as 23 August 1967.

DFWB.

ntscuser · 31st Jul 2015, 11:18 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by FERNSEH

When exactly in 1967 was the Ferguson 3700 first announced

The 2000 series chassis was announced in the June 1967 issue of Wireless World but bear in mind that the delay between announcements and appearing in print was much longer in those days, sometimes as long as three months.

Restoration73 · 1st Aug 2015, 1:19 am

It's fortunate that TI had developed the silicon line output transistors in time for this.

ntscuser · 1st Aug 2015, 1:22 am

They were commissioned from them by BRC specifically for the purpose weren't they?

Welsh Anorak · 4th Aug 2015, 10:12 am

Hi
I believe they were developed for radar use but their specification was deemed suitable for Thorn's application. Unfortunately although adequate for radar they weren't up to spec and failed frequently in testing. TI apparently remanufactured the transistors to Thorn's spec and they then performed well. (source: The Setmakers).
All the transistors were silicon in the 2000. The main problems were those terrible Callins capacitors and the system switch which changed over far too often for the reliability of the high-power line stage.
I'm still at a loss as to why they didn't include a pincushion transductor - the holes are there. There was a Television article to add one retrospectively, but I've never tried it.
I sympathise with Rich - the 2000 was very thin on the ground in the late Seventies and opening those doors could cause a cold sweat to break out...
The local 'tech' used the 2000 as their mule and I wonder how the newly qualified engineers felt on opening, say a G6!
Glyn

ntscuser · 4th Aug 2015, 12:17 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welsh Anorak

I'm still at a loss as to why they didn't include a pincushion transductor - the holes are there.

Cost! Sir Jules claimed he lost money on every set built so to have included the transductor would have lost even more money.

Another factor I suspect is that people weren't as fussy about picture geometry then as they are now so why spend the money where it wasn't strictly necessary.

MALC SCOTT · 4th Aug 2015, 6:22 pm

BRC mounted the crt upside down as it was supposed to minimize pincushion distortion

vidjoman · 4th Aug 2015, 6:31 pm

It was said to be less noticeable with bent horizontals at the top as most captions are at the bottom.

Welsh Anorak · 4th Aug 2015, 6:37 pm

Hi Malc
Wasn't that in the 22" 3000? The 2000 certainly had the tube the right way up! I wonder if that was to respond to complaints about the oddly shaped picture on the 2000. If leaving the transductor out of the 25" 2000 was due to cost then I think it was a mistake. Customers, having spent a fortune on colour used to look closely at the test card and point out any imperfections to the poor old service engineer.
A late friend assured me one of his customers used to have a pair of engineering calipers to check the roundness of the circle in test card C and the linearity of the picture.
One good thing about LCD and plasma - no geometry or convergence to set up!

FERNSEH · 4th Aug 2015, 9:35 pm

It is possible to fit a transductor to the 2000, the printed circuit board permits this.
My "Queens speech" set will be equipped with one in due course.

DFWB.

29th Jul 2015, 2:29 pm	#1
DPR2015 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: London, UK. Posts: 2	First Ferguson colour TV?? I'm new here and am hoping someone can provide me with some help! I'm after information about the very first Ferguson colour TV...what model was it, and/or is there still one in the UK? I'm trying to find the person who might own one of the very first models made...any information would be greatly appreciated!!

29th Jul 2015, 2:52 pm	#2
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 7,444	Re: First Ferguson colour TV?? Do you mean the 1967 model 3700? Or the research models which used the round CRT. I've seen the circuit diagrams of the set, it used two parallel PL500s in the line output stage. Might have been designated as the 1000 series. Never when into series production. DFWB.

29th Jul 2015, 3:47 pm	#3
DPR2015 Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: London, UK. Posts: 2	Re: First Ferguson colour TV?? I'm after models that were built and in circulation, hoping there might still be one around. Essentially, I'm looking for the very first and/or oldest Ferguson colour TV!

29th Jul 2015, 4:08 pm	#4
Welsh Anorak Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: North Wales, UK. Posts: 6,916	Re: First Ferguson colour TV?? Hi there It's the Thorn 2000 series, then, which had the distinction of being the world's first all-transistor colour television dating from 1967. It's dual standard, model 3700 with a 25" Mazda CRT and a cabinet with folding doors. The HMV and Marconi models were similar (2700 and 4700). There was a 19" version as well (X701), though I'm not sure it wore a Ferguson badge. There are still quite a few about - I am restoring one at the moment, though it will be a long haul. I'm sure there are several people on this forum with good working examples. Glyn

29th Jul 2015, 4:31 pm	#5
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 7,444	Re: First Ferguson colour TV?? Like this one: https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...t=Marconi+4701 Work on this set is still in progress. I'm certain a 19" Ferguson BRC 2000 was made. DFWB.

29th Jul 2015, 5:41 pm	#6
jayceebee Heptode Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Durham, County Durham, UK. Posts: 640	Re: First Ferguson colour TV?? Ferguson 3701, you can see it here.

29th Jul 2015, 8:34 pm	#7
System A Pentode Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: County Durham, UK. Posts: 234	Re: First Ferguson colour TV?? Hi Here is a picture of my 3700 . it works very well . Regards . Gary. Attached Thumbnails

30th Jul 2015, 9:53 am	#8
Heatercathodeshort Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Warnham, West Sussex. 10 miles south of DORKING. Posts: 9,147	Re: First Ferguson colour TV?? The Thorn 2000 chassis certainly was their first commercial colour receiver released in 1967. Not only was it the Worlds first all transistor colour tv, it was also very reliable, let down only by those nasty black electrolytic capacitors that developed leaks and went S/C. I was involved with this chassis from it's release, and was one of the chassis that launched me into colour servicing with the help of Gordon J King and his excellent book 'Servicing Colour TV receivers'. Happy Days! There used to be a Perspex case in the Science Museum that contained a 2000 chassis in module form with cards explaining the various panels. I am told it is in the stores in a sorry state with the neck broken off the CRT. A sorry end for an example of brilliant British electronics. John.

30th Jul 2015, 2:13 pm	#9
slidertogrid Octode Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK. Posts: 1,898	Re: First Ferguson colour TV?? I saw the 2000 at the Science Museum some time back. it was in a glass display case and it looked as if the tube neck had been removed to get the doors on the glass case to shut! I cringed at the thought that it had been done just to get it in the display case. There was a modern CRT set at the side of it as a demonstration as to how much smaller the chassis had got as technology had advanced over the years. I finally managed to get a 25" HMV Colourmaster for my collection earlier in the year. They don't seem as scary now as when they were current. I can remember calling out to a set in a large cabinet and thinking "please be a 3000 " over again until I got the doors open. 6 push buttons...aargh! Rich. __________________ The rotation of the earth really makes my day...

31st Jul 2015, 2:41 pm	#11
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 7,444	Re: First Ferguson colour TV?? When exactly in 1967 was the Ferguson 3700 first announced and when was it was ready for sale in the shops? It would be interesting to discover when dealers accepted first deliveries of the set. Didn't they release the HMV 2700 before the Ferguson? Not a Ferguson but simply for an example my GEC 2028 is date stamped as 23 August 1967. DFWB.

1st Aug 2015, 1:19 am	#13
Restoration73 Nonode Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Surbiton, SW London, UK. Posts: 2,801	Re: First Ferguson colour TV?? It's fortunate that TI had developed the silicon line output transistors in time for this.

1st Aug 2015, 1:22 am	#14
ntscuser Hexode Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Coventry, West Midlands, UK. Posts: 280	Re: First Ferguson colour TV?? They were commissioned from them by BRC specifically for the purpose weren't they? Last edited by ntscuser; 1st Aug 2015 at 1:31 am. Reason: Grammatical error

4th Aug 2015, 10:12 am	#15
Welsh Anorak Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: North Wales, UK. Posts: 6,916	Re: First Ferguson colour TV?? Hi I believe they were developed for radar use but their specification was deemed suitable for Thorn's application. Unfortunately although adequate for radar they weren't up to spec and failed frequently in testing. TI apparently remanufactured the transistors to Thorn's spec and they then performed well. (source: The Setmakers). All the transistors were silicon in the 2000. The main problems were those terrible Callins capacitors and the system switch which changed over far too often for the reliability of the high-power line stage. I'm still at a loss as to why they didn't include a pincushion transductor - the holes are there. There was a Television article to add one retrospectively, but I've never tried it. I sympathise with Rich - the 2000 was very thin on the ground in the late Seventies and opening those doors could cause a cold sweat to break out... The local 'tech' used the 2000 as their mule and I wonder how the newly qualified engineers felt on opening, say a G6! Glyn

4th Aug 2015, 6:22 pm	#17
MALC SCOTT Octode Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Willington, County Durham, UK. Posts: 1,499	Re: First Ferguson colour TV?? BRC mounted the crt upside down as it was supposed to minimize pincushion distortion __________________ Malc Scott

4th Aug 2015, 6:31 pm	#18
vidjoman Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: East Sussex, UK. Posts: 3,324	Re: First Ferguson colour TV?? It was said to be less noticeable with bent horizontals at the top as most captions are at the bottom.

4th Aug 2015, 6:37 pm	#19
Welsh Anorak Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: North Wales, UK. Posts: 6,916	Re: First Ferguson colour TV?? Hi Malc Wasn't that in the 22" 3000? The 2000 certainly had the tube the right way up! I wonder if that was to respond to complaints about the oddly shaped picture on the 2000. If leaving the transductor out of the 25" 2000 was due to cost then I think it was a mistake. Customers, having spent a fortune on colour used to look closely at the test card and point out any imperfections to the poor old service engineer. A late friend assured me one of his customers used to have a pair of engineering calipers to check the roundness of the circle in test card C and the linearity of the picture. One good thing about LCD and plasma - no geometry or convergence to set up!

4th Aug 2015, 9:35 pm	#20
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 7,444	Re: First Ferguson colour TV?? It is possible to fit a transductor to the 2000, the printed circuit board permits this. My "Queens speech" set will be equipped with one in due course. DFWB.