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Old 25th Jun 2017, 3:21 pm   #21
stevehertz
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Default Re: Best VHF only Valve Radios - advice please

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Originally Posted by Leon Crampin View Post
The waveband switching complications are not too much of a reliability hazard if the switchgear is good. So, the Plessey switchbanks on the Bush "VHF" series are out - poor insulation and inadequate clearance. Some of the German piano key sets also suffer here.
The audible effect of this being..?
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Old 25th Jun 2017, 4:28 pm   #22
Leon Crampin
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Default Re: Best VHF only Valve Radios - advice please

Lots of crackling.
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Old 25th Jun 2017, 4:33 pm   #23
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Default Re: Best VHF only Valve Radios - advice please

How about an FM only tuner?
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Old 25th Jun 2017, 4:44 pm   #24
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Default Re: Best VHF only Valve Radios - advice please

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Originally Posted by Paul_RK View Post
A site dedicated to listing and providing some details of FM-only radios from across the globe used to exist. It's currently taken down, and its creator is inviting interest from anyone who might care to host it. Wayback Machine fortunately still gives access -

https://web.archive.org/web/20160313...m/fm_only.html

FM-only capability just never was, it seems, a popular choice among those ready to pay the price for superior audio performance from a valve radio. As far as I know the UK sets which at all rival the Mayflowers have been mentioned here already, and a few others besides ... with the exception of the floor-standing Dynatron Ether Minstrel, which few of us are likely to encounter.

One very good option, I expect, from overseas, would be the KLH Model 8,

http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/klh_eight.html

It does, though, have its 'speaker in a separate cabinet, and a good example is likely to be costly even before international shipping.

Paul
PAUL..............Thanks for the list. Lots of obscure stuff in there I did not know existed. A few might turn up however like the Bush and a few other more well known names.
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Old 25th Jun 2017, 4:45 pm   #25
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Default Re: Best VHF only Valve Radios - advice please

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How about an FM only tuner?
SAM............Best of both worlds the "valve radio sound" + Simplicity of VHF only radio (which is superior sound quality).
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Old 25th Jun 2017, 5:29 pm   #26
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Default Re: Best VHF only Valve Radios - advice please

Yes, I was going to make the silly suggestion of a Quad FM1, Quad II control unit and Quad II power amplifier . But if you went stereo with that setup you would have transistors in the decoder.
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Old 25th Jun 2017, 5:31 pm   #27
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Default Re: Best VHF only Valve Radios - advice please

What do you use as the criteria by which you define "Best"?

Performance (sensitivity, image-rejection, frequency-stability)? audio quality? appearance? modern-day usability? Reliability?

If we're allowed to include US radios I'd go for a Hallicrafters S27: not only does it cover a decent frequency-range (indluding the VHF broadcast-band, band-1 analog-TV sound/vision, and the few remaining Eastern Bloc FM stations around 70MHz) but also the 2M and 4M amateur-bands.


http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/hallicr..._s_27_s27.html


They have serious historic provenance: http://swling.com/blog/2012/08/the-c...ronic-warfare/

With 8 Watts of audio from push=pull 6V6es as the output-stage, hook it up to a good speaker and it should be loud enough for most people....!
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Old 25th Jun 2017, 6:14 pm   #28
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Default Re: Best VHF only Valve Radios - advice please

The Heathkit GR-21 seems promising -

http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/heath_gr_21_gr2.html

'From 1961 Heathkit advertisement;
To the inherited quality performance of the famous FM-4 Tuner, the GR-21 adds an amplifier, speaker and cabinet for convenient one-unit FM operation. The 6" x 9" dual cone speaker with 6.8 oz. magnet gives true high-fidelity sound reproduction. The pre-assembled, pre-aligned tuning unit makes assembly easy. Flywheel tuning with a fine vernier action is assisted by a tuning "eye" and lighted dial for easy station selection. Automatic Frequency Control is easily switched on for drift-free reception. The GR-21 is powered by a large AC transformer with silicon diode rectifiers. Other features include: line cord antenna and external antenna terminals; multiplex output jack; tone and volume controls. Housed in a 1/2" walnut veneer cabinet with furniture-quality finish and protective back panel, it has a unique "relief" speaker grill which is offset from the front. 15" L X 8" H X 6" D. 16 lbs.'

Again it may well have been a USA-only model, so would need a transformer and, probably, shipping.

Paul
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Old 25th Jun 2017, 6:46 pm   #29
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Default Re: Best VHF only Valve Radios - advice please

So many ways....

Going for a separate tuner/amplifier/speaker opens up a lot more possibilities.

The original post implies one-box sets, but doesn't rule separates in or out. As quality is the stated aim, and the Quad FM2 has already been mentioned, I'd better suggest the Leak Troughline which has a very good reputation.

There are lots of good old speakers which keep turning up at bargain prices. The trouble comes with the need for amplification. A Quad II or a Leak TL12 is a very expensive thing nowadays. Everyone which shows up has a flock of audiophiles chasing it, waving their wallets.

If the final aim is to just have good sound, does it matter if a radio has other bands if you never select them? This decision cuts your choice down a lot.

I alway question any insistence on valves where audio is concerned. It drops you right into the domain of crazy overpricing. Careful choice without that limitation could save you a lot of money, and still leave you with equally good results.

David
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Old 25th Jun 2017, 7:43 pm   #30
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Default Re: Best VHF only Valve Radios - advice please

I realise that you will be pulling your hair out by now wrt people suggesting sets that are multiband ie VHF plus MW etc, when you have stated over and over again that you want a set that is VHF only. So on that score, I apologise about what I am now about to say. Basically, I'm not 'getting' your objection to sets that are multiband - they don't necessarily perform any worse for having more bands? In doing so, you are counting out sets like the Grundig 3028 that have four speakers and a very useful four band graphic eq. The sound from these big Grundigs is about as good as it gets in a valved, table radio; in a word, amazing. Big, powerhouse sets like this include Bush's VHF64/94, ones by Saba, Philips, Telefunken, and the Pye Fenman, etc. Just forget the wave change switch (having cleaned it thoroughly), sit back and enjoy big, bold, clear, powerful sound from FM in a way that you never have before?

That's my thoughts, but I do appreciate that you want a VHF only set. Trouble is, it seems no such set exists in the form that you describe, Hacker Mayflower excepted. And from someone who owns a fully restored and professionally realigned Mayflower II RV20 and four different large Grundigs, there is no comparison, the Grundigs win hands down. The Mayflower has one elliptical speaker and a single, crude treble control. The Grundigs have up to five speakers and up to five EQ controls. Photos are the Grundig 3028 and the 'big daddy', 15W rated 5080.

Have a rethink about that need for VHF only. You're excluding yourself from some of the best sounding vintage wireless sets ever made in doing so.
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 8:17 am   #31
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Default Re: Best VHF only Valve Radios - advice please

One reason to prefer an FM-only set is that the UCC85 won't be so likely to have been worn out from running with no HT while the set is being used on MW or LW. What you are likely to find in an FM-only set In Real Life, though, is a UCC85 that is worn out from normal operation. (I say UCC85, but exactly the same applies to the ECC85 that would be found in a transformer-fed set.)

They just aren't the longest-lasting valves, unfortunately.

Only a minority of sets have problems with HT tracking across wavechange switch wafers, and they have been mentioned in past posts.

A set with "all the bells and whistles" is likely to be a better performer than one trying to be "VHF-FM you can afford", since the former will have had no expense spared while the latter is built down to a price.
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 8:49 am   #32
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Default Re: Best VHF only Valve Radios - advice please

I have a few FM only sets and this one is the best sounding, it's not large but is wood and has a lovely tone.

Ultra FM950 'Troubadour' 88-101 Mhz, 6 valves - UCC85 UF89 UF89 UABC80 UL84 UY85

John
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 8:58 am   #33
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Default Re: Best VHF only Valve Radios - advice please

Thank you all again for your interesting and informative posts.My everyday listening radios are a HACKER MAYFLOWER RV20 and a GRUNDIG 2068 so it looks like I have been doing something right. As I have said I will probably upgrade to a bigger GRUNDIG or a SABA if I an find one not at silly money. I fear a new collection of "FM ONLY" sets rearing its head as they are fairly obscure so there is the thrill of the search ! Thanks again everyone.
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 9:25 am   #34
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Default Re: Best VHF only Valve Radios - advice please

Have you considered using an external LS with your Hacker to further improve the sound quality?

The cabinet and loudspeaker are apparently the weakest point with these.
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 9:33 am   #35
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Default Re: Best VHF only Valve Radios - advice please

NICK............No, but I will look into it. Thanks for the advice.
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 3:27 pm   #36
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Default Re: Best VHF only Valve Radios - advice please

There is a much simpler way to greatly improve the sound of a Mayflower. I inserted a passive shelf network between the radio output socket and the gram input socket. Basically I built a small R/C network across a pair of phono sockets mounted in a tiny die cast box measuring just 51x36x31mm (2 inches long). The box straps onto the back of the Mayflower using a nylon tie and connects with a stereo phono lead to the aforementioned sockets. There are zero modifications to the set itself - see photo. To go back to stock, simply pull out the two plugs from the back of the set.

Background. The HM RV20 has a great audio output circuit; push-pull, ultra linear configured, with an EL84 output bottle. Ironically however, while the sound is high on ‘fidelity’, it is uninspiring and frankly, boxy and lacking in bass. The situation is not helped by the fact that the set – for all its technical sophistication – has just a single tone control, a treble control, and even that is mounted on the rear of the set! It’s my view that Hacker wanted to design a smart, neat, clean looking set in the ‘modern’ idiom. In fact there are no knobs on the front of the set and just a tuning control at one end and the on/off/volume at the other end. Compare that with its contemporaries by Grundig, Bush, Philps, Telefunken, Saba and many others who included bass and treble controls, and some – especially Grundig – also included intermediate frequency tone controls to finely tune the set to one’s satisfaction or, to counter driver abnormalities. These sets also used multiple speakers including tweeters and side mounted drivers to spread the sound and make it ‘big’, inspiring and 3D like. Ok, I’m not saying that Hacker were obliged to go that far, to go down that route, but they could have at least included a bass tone control that, in conjunction with the treble control could be tweaked to counter the ‘turtle’s back’ frequency response of that 10x6 speaker.

The shelf circuit used comprises two resistors and a capacitor. That’s all. Referring to the diagram below, the values are as follows. R1 270K, R2 100K, and C1 is 6.8nF. I have experimented with those values, and after over a week of listening to that particular configuration, the sound of the set now meets my expectations. Gone is the honky, boxy, nasal mid range and the bass is so much better too. The shelf works best with treble control up full. This also has the effect of helping to reduce the mid range honk of the speaker while simultaneously lifting the higher frequencies that are not so well catered for with a 10x6 inch driver. Overall the sound is much flatter and 'hifi like', though not true 'hifi' obviously! If someone wanted to go for more of a halfway house situation between stock and my 'solution', then I’d suggest R1 to be 180K. But I listed long and hard to attain the values that I finally settled on. Note that there’s an added benefit in that there’s now more ‘spread’ on the volume control where it all used to come in at the bottom end of the pot on strong stations. One more point, the phono plug that is used in the gram input socket must be one of the old style ones with an extra long central pin - see photo. This is because its insertion into the gram input socket mechanically operates a switch that disconnects the set’s radio circuitry in order for the socket to work as required when used for amplifying a gram. A modern style phono plug with a short pin will not work, it does not operate the switch. I was lucky, I just happened to have one old style phono plug at hand.

Finally, my mentor on the Hacker Mayflower, Mark Hennessy must take credit for the shelf design and general technical advice and ‘hand holding’. I – as a musician and long time studio technician – just provided the ears and fine tuned the values of the network.
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 3:33 pm   #37
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Default Re: Best VHF only Valve Radios - advice please

These are nice....

http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/hismasters_1375.html

I want one too....

Cheers,

Steve P.
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 3:48 pm   #38
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Default Re: Best VHF only Valve Radios - advice please

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There is a much simpler way to greatly improve the sound of a Mayflower.
I will try that, thanks Steve and Mark.
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Old 28th Jun 2017, 6:13 pm   #39
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Default Re: Best VHF only Valve Radios - advice please

My Ekco C273 sounds very good, Ekco is my favourite manufacturer as quality is always spot on (at least with the early sets).
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