UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players

Notices

Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players Open-reel tape recorders, cassette recorders, 8-track players etc.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 31st Jul 2017, 8:53 pm   #1
sparkymike
Octode
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Colchester, Essex, UK.
Posts: 1,063
Default Philips EL3581 office tape recorder

Hi, I am repairing a Phillips EL 3581 dictaphone for a good friend.
I need to be able to connect in an extension speaker. Does anyone have any idea of the impedance needed ?
I have the circuit so no problem there as yet.
Mike.
sparkymike is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2017, 12:52 pm   #2
camtechman
Nonode
 
camtechman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Milton Keynes, Bucks. UK.
Posts: 2,552
Default Re: Phillips EL 3581 office tape recorder

The output is designed for headphones or an additional amplifier unit but not a low impedance speaker directly.

Although an 80 Ohm speaker may be ok but don't expect a high output..
__________________
When I die, please don't let my Wife sell my collection for the amount I told her I paid for it!

Last edited by camtechman; 1st Aug 2017 at 1:04 pm.
camtechman is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2017, 4:30 pm   #3
sparkymike
Octode
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Colchester, Essex, UK.
Posts: 1,063
Default Re: Phillips EL 3581 office tape recorder

Hi,
Got as far as finding that the playback solenoid does not want to pull in when foot pedal is pressed , but it will pull and hold in if it is actuated by hand. Weak solenoid ?
Or perhaps some adjustment needed ?
Seem to be a very well made bit of equipment ,as most Phillips items seem to be.
Mike.
sparkymike is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2017, 8:14 am   #4
sparkymike
Octode
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Colchester, Essex, UK.
Posts: 1,063
Default Re: Philips EL3581 office tape recorder

I have measured the coils on each solenoid and the good working one is around 143 ohms and the bad one is around 173 ohms. If anyone out there could take the time to meter their solenoids I would be grateful.
Were the same solenoids used on any other Phillips tape decks ?
Mike.
sparkymike is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2017, 4:15 pm   #5
sparkymike
Octode
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Colchester, Essex, UK.
Posts: 1,063
Default Re: Philips EL3581 office tape recorder

Two thumbnails enclosed of the recorder. The large rubber tyred wheel that runs directly on the main motor is out of square to the horizontal, as is the small wheel to the left in the same photo. Is this correct? It does not seem to be right to me. In addition the motor has a rubber drive on the spindle but this does not seem to be correct and I am wondering if part of the rubber has broken off in the past.
Mike.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6229.jpg
Views:	121
Size:	65.3 KB
ID:	147259   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_6230.jpg
Views:	123
Size:	107.8 KB
ID:	147260  
sparkymike is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2017, 8:09 am   #6
sparkymike
Octode
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Colchester, Essex, UK.
Posts: 1,063
Default Re: Philips EL3581 office tape recorder

I have found that one movable part was tight on its spindle thus making the solenoid hard to operate. With the addition of a slight adjustment to a thin metal strip that guides the large rubber tyred wheel the transport mechanism now works in all directions. However,on playback, the speed is around twice as fast as it should be with a voice on the tape sounding like Mel Blanc. What speed should the capstan run at ? I have a digital rpm meter, so could easily check this if correct speed was known. I don't have the correct mike at present, so difficult to do a test tape. I have wondered if the cassette tapes , of which I have three, might have been recorded at wrong speed on another machine.
Mike.
sparkymike is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2017, 9:21 am   #7
Ted Kendall
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kington, Herefordshire, UK.
Posts: 3,658
Default Re: Philips EL3581 office tape recorder

This machine does not have a capstan, so the speed is likely to be non-standard to start with and will increse with the diameter of the tape stack on the take-up side.
Ted Kendall is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2017, 10:51 am   #8
camtechman
Nonode
 
camtechman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Milton Keynes, Bucks. UK.
Posts: 2,552
Default Re: Philips EL3581 office tape recorder

Sparkymike,

Did my post #2 answer your question about using an extension speaker ?
__________________
When I die, please don't let my Wife sell my collection for the amount I told her I paid for it!
camtechman is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2017, 11:45 am   #9
TIMTAPE
Octode
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 1,965
Default Re: Philips EL3581 office tape recorder

These machines were designed to play back through either the microphone in the wired remote handset, or stethoscope type earphones. As mentioned they didn't have a lot of output and as I recall were all valve.
TIMTAPE is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2017, 3:13 pm   #10
sparkymike
Octode
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Colchester, Essex, UK.
Posts: 1,063
Default Re: Philips EL3581 office tape recorder

Hi Error in my recent post, for "capstan" read motor spindle rpm.
The output through the stethoscope earphones is pretty good quality with plenty of reserve volume.
Extension speaker will not now be required.
However, my friend will need to acquire the dedicated Phillips microphone if he wishes to proceed, as it incorporates a remote on off switch and some other components. I will have to check with him if he wants me to proceed any further.
I remarked earlier about the first class engineering of the Dutch factory, but this was actually made in Austria for Phillips.(Small label on the machine cover.)
Yes this has two valves. I believe later machines has three. (a magic eye ?)
A word of caution with these machines. Once cover is removed, access to the mains terminals with the fingers is very possible, so beware. My friend got a belt before he passed it over to me.!!
Mike.
sparkymike is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2017, 7:42 pm   #11
Maarten
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Haarlem, Netherlands
Posts: 4,185
Default Re: Philips EL3581 office tape recorder

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkymike View Post
I remarked earlier about the first class engineering of the Dutch factory, but this was actually made in Austria for Phillips.
Actually, it wasn't made in Austria for Philips, but rather by Philips.

By that time there hadn't been too much Dutch involvement in tape recorders for several years. Development was mostly done in Hasselt, Belgium instead of Eindhoven and was later mostly moved to one of the Vienna, Austria plants that already produced recorders (probably the WIRAG plant) which the became the competence centre for recorders (most notably video recorders up to 2002). The dictaphone department is still there.

Last edited by Maarten; 9th Aug 2017 at 7:50 pm.
Maarten is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2017, 11:00 am   #12
Voxophone
Hexode
 
Voxophone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Sunderland, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 340
Default Re: Philips EL3581 office tape recorder

There was a loudspeaker accessory available for these machines, as shown here: https://img.2ememain.be/f/normal/359...et-de-1950.jpg

Lacking this the Philips microphones themselves can be used as speakers for playback, although the sound isn't great.

If the correct mic can't be found it may be possible to wire a generic one into a DIN connector with a couple of separate switches for record and playback.

This video has some information on the pinouts for the mics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-Cye-Drn0o

Liam
Voxophone is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2017, 7:47 am   #13
sparkymike
Octode
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Colchester, Essex, UK.
Posts: 1,063
Default Re: Philips EL3581 office tape recorder

I have ordered a six pin din plug and will do what previous post advises.
I had maybe around 20 din plugs here of various configurations, but none to match the Phillips, which has one pin in the middle with the other five in normal place.
I have the circuit, so no problem with pin outs.
Mike.
sparkymike is offline  
Old 13th Aug 2017, 6:12 pm   #14
sparkymike
Octode
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Colchester, Essex, UK.
Posts: 1,063
Default Re: Philips EL3581 office tape recorder

Hi See thumbnail.
Are the switches in the circuit drawn in operating mode ?
Is the 120 marked block a resistor ?
Mike.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Philips_EL-3581_schematic.jpg
Views:	206
Size:	40.7 KB
ID:	147846  
sparkymike is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2017, 12:44 pm   #15
Maarten
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Haarlem, Netherlands
Posts: 4,185
Default Re: Philips EL3581 office tape recorder

Usually switches are drawn in inactive mode. The block is indeed a resistor.
Maarten is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:30 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.